white fox Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 I read this on another forum, I am not aware of any UK regulations about stowing guns out of sight. My uncovered gun lays on hooks on the dog guard, just behind my head in the landrover, it is visible from the outside. Have travelled in many other landrovers with similar set-up. If leaving the vehicle unattended to pay for diesel or similar, then I do lock the door. Is anyone wise on this, are we breaking some laws. WF When travelling in a vehicle, keep your guns and ammunition out of sight, preferably in the locked luggage compartment. It is preferable to keep the guns in their slips or cases. If you have to park your vehicle for any reason, ensure the guns are stored as above, and park the vehicle where you can see it if at all possible. The vehicle must be locked, and any anti-theft devices set. It is a good idea to park in such a way as to prevent easy access to the part of the vehicle containing your guns, such as backing the car very close to a wall to make it difficult for a thief to get at the boot. Where possible, remove the fore-end of the Shot gun and take it with you. There are also various security devices that can be used if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il cacciatore Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Where did the quote come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr W Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 I've read that quote as well and to be fair it makes sense, you're running quite a risk leaving it on show. It's your duty to prevent theft where ever possible and the police would not look kindly on you having it on show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 your motor believe it or not is a public place(while on a road or highway.) so in slips and out of site. i am sure a chap in scotland or north yorks has just lost both his permits for the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 my mate was in his land rover gun uncovered and the police stoped him, they said the gun must be covered up and he had two take them two his house two show them his gun licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 The law, and your ticket, both say you have to take "reasonable steps" to ensure the gun(s) do not come into the possession of an unauthorised person. My interpretation of this is "not on show, locked away". I'd think you would be in a spot of trouble if you were to have it stolen given how you sometimes keep it. To some I may seem over the top, but with firearms you have to take it seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 I'm sure I've read about a chap who lost his ticket because his guns were stolen from a locked car. I think the police are quite strict on the safe keeping of firearms, and rightly so. The potential damage a shotgun could cause in the wrong hands is pretty severe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white fox Posted April 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 The law, and your ticket, both say you have to take "reasonable steps" to ensure the gun(s) do not come into the possession of an unauthorised person. My interpretation of this is "not on show, locked away". I'd think you would be in a spot of trouble if you were to have it stolen given how you sometimes keep it. To some I may seem over the top, but with firearms you have to take it seriously. SGC - Conditions 4a and 4b are as you say. However my interpretation is that the shotgun is in my charge when in the vehicle with me. Interpretation is just that, it would be for me to argue my case. I can't see it getting stolen when I am in the vehicle with it. On shoot days I have had 10 people with unsleeved guns in the landrover and plent more in the cattle trailer behind, moving between drives on the public highway. On more than one occasion one of these guns has been a serving police officer, in addition to various titled gentry, never has one word been said about this. Again my interpretation is that each individual is responsible for the gun in his possession. Also when after foxes at night, we move from field to field using the local roads, are we seriouisly expected to remove the for-end and sleeve the gun for a 300 yard drive on the road to the next field. So where do you draw the line. As for the fellow stopped and being asked to show his SGC to the police immediately, I don't have a problem with that, I always carry my SGC with me. Wise comments welcome. WF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 My post wasn't meant to be critical, only analytical I agree that "reasonable" isn't a great word when talking about law and legislation, its clearly a word which infers interpretation and opinion. 12 guns in the guns bus on the way to another drive with unloaded guns over their knees on the public highway for 30 seconds (or longer) seems perfectly reasonable to me. I think the problem comes when you find someone driving about with a shotty on the back seat of a car, he's not on his way from a field or to a field - the law has to take care of people like that and sometimes the rulings made infer that completely impractical measures be taken. Gun in locked truck with you 100 yds away on private property compared to gun on show in the back of a car, unattended is a completely different matter. But then, we are back to the interpretation of "reasonable" again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 This is a subject that has bothered me quite a bit. I'd like to be able to leave my gun in the car when helping at the farm, but don't feel it's safe. The best bet would be to leave it with the farmers wife so she could keep an eye on it, but in legal terms this is worse that locking it in the van as she doesn't have a cert! I don't have space for a cabinet in the truck, and a cable to fit a rifle isn't possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white fox Posted April 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 I don't have space for a cabinet in the truck, and a cable to fit a rifle isn't possible Yes - a landrover truck-cab would give the same problem, obviously can't put it in the open back, only place is a gunrack behind the drivers head. Something slightly different - Years ago when shooting clays, a fellow used to turn up on a motorcycle with his shotgun in a sleeve on his back. His journey was some 15 miles each way, going through at least two towns. Isn't that taking reasonable steps to prevent loss? WF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 To make it even worse FLO's won't ok or not-ok anything you suggest. Last xmas I went up north to see my folks. I was to shoot at Thimbleby as well as Steve Smiths while up there. Clearly I was going to take my gun. On the way up the gun was broken in its case at the bottom of a cavernous boot while we stopped at service stations and the like. I wasn't happy with that, but in the eyes of the law I see that as "reasonable". I was hardly going to slip it and take it in, I think that would have been many times worse, as a plan. When I got up there, I was only staying a few days, I chose to keep the forend on my person at all times. The barrels were locked in my boot and the "butt" was hidden in my folks house where only I knew where it was. I think I satisfied my requirements, as per the law, but you can take it too far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 White fox, I often visit sainsburys after a Sunday morning shoot at the local clayground and take my gun, in it's slip, with me so as not to compromise any vehicle security problems. I have never been pulled up on it but once a woman asked me if I play the trombone Best keep it well hidden Arne LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMT Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 When travelling in a vehicle, keep your guns and ammunition out of sight, preferably in the locked luggage compartment. It is preferable to keep the guns in their slips or cases. If you have to park your vehicle for any reason, ensure the guns are stored as above, and park the vehicle where you can see it if at all possible. The vehicle must be locked, and any anti-theft devices set. It is a good idea to park in such a way as to prevent easy access to the part of the vehicle containing your guns, such as backing the car very close to a wall to make it difficult for a thief to get at the boot. Where possible, remove the fore-end of the Shot gun and take it with you. There are also various security devices that can be used if necessary. This is almost word for word what the FLO told me about travelling with my shotgun when I asked about taking it to Scotland shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 My FLO went to great lengths to say that if you go shooting and leave your car parked up with guns on display (in slips or otherwise) and it comes to their attention, they will (1) put the window in and seize the guns and (2) revoke your certificate. I think the under-current was that this is how naughty boys supply guns to other naughty boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 I would have thought keeping it on show in a gun rack is good when in the field or in Montanna but not good in a petrol station. To be honest when I go shooting I never end up shopping before or after, because of the security angle. If I need anything I always go out afterwards. I have only left the gun attende once and that was a couple of weeks ago when shooting with Sussex lad. I covered it up well, it was in it's case and locked in a vechile. Despite the fact it was only an air rifle I still believe it is not good to announce the fact that you have a gun in a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 i used two keep mine on show many years ago,a copper stopped and and seen them on the racks in my van and said thats fine, but now its a nanny state cant do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 What I'd like to see is a single gun case like the ones some manufacturers supply with new guns, but made of 2mm steel like a gunsafe. It would be light enough to be carried a short distance, and strong enough to be chained to something big (Ie RSJ section of a barn, or secure point in a vehicle) without being easy to break into. I have a locking plastic case but anyone with a cigarette lighter could melt the lock holes off and take the contents very easily. I think with the law how it is, we're quite poorly catered for to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 Something slightly different - Years ago when shooting clays, a fellow used to turn up on a motorcycle with his shotgun in a sleeve on his back. His journey was some 15 miles each way, going through at least two towns. Isn't that taking reasonable steps to prevent loss? WF A shooting friend of mine uses a break down slip slung over his back when on a motor bike. The Police were more than happy with this as they considered he would most likely leave it slung over his back if he had to stop off rather than leave it with the bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 what mark said about your vehicle being a public place is true. My neighbour was up on poaching and posessing a firearm in a public place charges. He got off the poaching as he was only sweeping the field with a lamp to go back and ask the farmer for permission the following day. However, he did get done for having a loaded air rifle (he should not have had it loaded anyway, no need) in a public place and the gun was sitting on his dashboard! So as stupid as it seems, a locked van with two occupants was deemed a public place by the judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 when i had my motor bike many years ago i used to sit on my gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wy111 Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Have a read of this :-Firearms Law. Especially page 116. You'll need Adobe Acrobat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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