Dannydp Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Had a day on the pigeon today and had quite a lot of pricked birds. After I'd finished I was picking up the decoys and found a plastic wad cup with shot still in it. I looked around for more and found 5 in total, all containing shot. The shot was crushed into the wad mostly but some could also be tipped out. Has anyone had this problem before and know the cause. The cartridges I was using were RC Atomic Steel 34g of 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnytheboy Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Were they 3" or the 2 3/4" ones out of interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannydp Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Were they 3" or the 2 3/4" ones out of interest 2 3/4 Hope it's a batch problem because some of the kills were out at 60 or so yards which is better than I was expecting with steel shot. I've only been using it my last 5 outings or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Had a day on the pigeon today and had quite a lot of pricked birds. After I'd finished I was picking up the decoys and found a plastic wad cup with shot still in it. I looked around for more and found 5 in total, all containing shot. The shot was crushed into the wad mostly but some could also be tipped out. Has anyone had this problem before and know the cause. The cartridges I was using were RC Atomic Steel 34g of 4. Yes spoke of it on here 4 years ago perhaps and got treated like a fool. It's a real issue with some wads maybe in connection with pressure maybe choke. Had a wad punch through 9mm hardy backer board just the other day testing loads at 35 yards this was from a factory load Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farma Geddon Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I use ported chokes for this very reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I use ported chokes for this very reason. This is probably a stupid question, but why do ported chokes help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farma Geddon Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Sometimes manufactures load with wads that are unsplit , not split at all or not split enough. Ported chokes will open the wads and make them work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 2 3/4 Hope it's a batch problem because some of the kills were out at 60 or so yards which is better than I was expecting with steel shot. I've only been using it my last 5 outings or so. Just wondered if you think maybe the pricked birds were down to inaccurate shooting. By the way, 34gm of steel 4s is a pretty big load for pigeons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannydp Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Just wondered if you think maybe the pricked birds were down to inaccurate shooting. By the way, 34gm of steel 4s is a pretty big load for pigeons. I know it's a large load for pigeon but I'm trying to compensate for the lack of weight per pellet. I've been told to go two sizes bigger in steel to get what you'd usually be using in lead. You could say it's lack of accuracy because if they were hit in the head then they'd be killed but I'm guessing with shot left in the wad there will be holes in the patterns.I also like to think I'm an experienced shot and yesterday's pricked birds were out of the ordinary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I know it's a large load for pigeon but I'm trying to compensate for the lack of weight per pellet. I've been told to go two sizes bigger in steel to get what you'd usually be using in lead. You could say it's lack of accuracy because if they were hit in the head then they'd be killed but I'm guessing with shot left in the wad there will be holes in the patterns.I also like to think I'm an experienced shot and yesterday's pricked birds were out of the ordinary. 32 grams of steel 4s have around the same amount of pellets as a lead 32 gram 6 , so really no need to go over 32 gram . Its not uncommon for steel pellets to get stuck in the wad during setback , its why I put a felt spacer in my wads when home loading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannydp Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 32 grams of steel 4s have around the same amount of pellets as a lead 32 gram 6 , so really no need to go over 32 gram . Its not uncommon for steel pellets to get stuck in the wad during setback , its why I put a felt spacer in my wads when home loading. The other reason for the weight and size of shot is the lack of choice locally.Both my local shops supply the same load one in RC and the other express. Not that the birds I've shot are too damaged anyway and they are not for human consumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 For what you must be paying for those loads you would be better buying 1000 from just cartridges . I have been shooting all my pigeons with steel for a while now, I would hate to have a big day using 35 gram HP loads Also have a look at the steel 24 gram 7.5 clay loads with a tight choke they work fine out to 40 yards and will be around half the price of the RC's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farma Geddon Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 The other reason for the weight and size of shot is the lack of choice locally.Both my local shops supply the same load one in RC and the other express. Not that the birds I've shot are too damaged anyway and they are not for human consumption.If you like them , use them mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I use ported chokes for this very reason. I was and nearly always do Porting in itself cannot act on this to the best of my knowledge but judging from some claims they can make you better looking and cure a bad back. Wad stripping chokes are another thing but having heard the stories of gun damage I am leaving that one be Some shells are just better than others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farma Geddon Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I was and nearly always do Porting in itself cannot act on this to the best of my knowledge but judging from some claims they can make you better looking and cure a bad back. Wad stripping chokes are another thing but having heard the stories of gun damage I am leaving that one be Some shells are just better than others Wad stripping g chokes are just fancy ported chokes.Ported chokes do the same thing to a wad , they slow it down because it gets forced into the ports and grabbed . This will open the wad too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannydp Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I'll try the ported chokes see how i get on. Some of the pellets were so deeply crushed into the base of the wad that i couldn't even get them out. I've contacted RC so it'll be interesting to hear their response. Problems aside I was very impressed with some of the kills out at range. hope its a problem easily solved as they are good value for money here even by the box £5.67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannydp Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Wad stripping g chokes are just fancy ported chokes. Ported chokes do the same thing to a wad , they slow it down because it gets forced into the ports and grabbed . This will open the wad too. I doubt that after using one three years or more and being able to almost guarantee it occurance with some shells The ports are meant as recoil and flip reduction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Are you saying you have used and disagree Kent???......... If you had shot a ported choke you would notice the plastic residue/ build up on ports caused by the wad wall being scrapped against ports, hence friction, reducing forward speed........... Particularly aggressive ports like on comp n chokes, which certainly could help this issue. Biggest reason for this problem is factory slit wads not all the way down. Had it happen with various factory loads on the pattern board. Wad normally flips ( so travelling backwards) and punches into pattern board like a sabot carrying shot in wad base. I think a more open choke and porting will help the OP's issue, as the choke won't help petals open and air brake, causing shot to tumble if wad flips which could cause pricked birds, as shot % will be well down...... I don't personally think ported chokes work the same as wad strippers.......... I think wad strippers are very wad dependent for their performance, and either pinch the wad closed, as shown in some slow motion freeze frames or retard the wad allowing the pattern clear of wad and gasses causing shorter shot strings in both ways. I don't know it all, this is just my O2 Edited August 19, 2015 by widgeon man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farma Geddon Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I'll try the ported chokes see how i get on. Some of the pellets were so deeply crushed into the base of the wad that i couldn't even get them out. I've contacted RC so it'll be interesting to hear their response. Problems aside I was very impressed with some of the kills out at range. hope its a problem easily solved as they are good value for money here even by the box £5.67It would help matters enormously if those wads were correctly split.They are only split part way down which causes that particular problem . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farma Geddon Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I doubt that after using one three years or more and being able to almost guarantee it occurance with some shells The ports are meant as recoil Do you really believe ported chokes make any worthwhile difference to recoil and muzzle flip ? I don't. And I stand by my post that they make a difference to stubborn wads , lead or steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 More spits or less splits is well known to effect spread greatly. Many wads used in factory shells have thier splits connected by little tabs (perhaps to aid Production?) think this is a big factor I don't doubt some reverse in flight but have only recovered wads that very obviously hit front on I confess I am a bit nutty about testing this sort of thing on my home range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigeon jim Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I have seen slow motion video of so called wad stripping chokes, they do nothing to slow the wad compared to normal constriction chokes, Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Not more or less slits Kent....... Slit to the base is the issue......... Factory loads are mainly half to 3/4 slit wads in steel loads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Not more or less slits Kent....... Slit to the base is the issue......... Factory loads are mainly half to 3/4 slit wads in steel loads[/quote It's common practice to add slits or reduce slits to effect pattern in hand loaded shells No doubt depth has an impact also Spreaders can also be added inside the wad though I have never tried it myself they are available So many factors why a wad might retain shot suffice to say it happens and represents another good reason to test shells in your gun and choke on a range and pattern board or plate before use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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