Smart Meters

[Zenduri]

Well I'm buying shares in tinfoil as some of you guys are really getting through the tinfoil hats.

 

To anyone afraid of someone accessing their smart meter without them knowing i would be more worried about your mobile phones or wifi as anyone with the technology and know how to hack into a smart meter can also access your wifi and mobile using the same skills and can gleam a lot more useful and valuable info from those rather than if you are in or not to break into you house.

 

Smart meters will mean more accurate billing which means you wont overpay and get into unnecessary credit and if you are struggling to pay the energy companies can step in and try and work something out before you get thousands in debt and due a court date.

 

it in theory should make the market more competitive as smaller suppliers can buy on day rate prices for electric and gas and pass the savings on to the customers directly where as the big 6 by regulation are paying for electric and gas 12-14months in advance and if the price drops over that period they cant then do anything as its already paid for which means customers then bare the costs. With smart meters energy suppliers should be able to accurately tell how much electric and gas they need to buy to sell to their customers and should be able to buy at better prices which in theory makes the market for customers more competitive as the savings should be passed on..... if this will happen or not i cant say.

Smart meters will also allow energy companies and in turn the national grid/ distributors to work out what load there is on the national grid and how much electricity is needed to help ensure everyone gets the electric they need with minimal over or under generation.

 

One benefit to Joe blogs is you are being billed for what you are using not what the energy companies think you are using which means you wont be getting estimated bills and spending your time ringing energy companies up to sort it out, or spend hours complaining to energy companies. Also if you are that way inclined you can see your usage and be conscious of how much you are using in real time and try to reduce your usage and therefore reduce the size of your bills.

 

There are a lot of things to consider with smart meters and how useful they are and above is just a few from both sides of the fence

[secretagentmole]

Well I'm buying shares in tinfoil as some of you guys are really getting through the tinfoil hats.

 

To anyone afraid of someone accessing their smart meter without them knowing i would be more worried about your mobile phones or wifi as anyone with the technology and know how to hack into a smart meter can also access your wifi and mobile using the same skills and can gleam a lot more useful and valuable info from those rather than if you are in or not to break into you house.

 

Smart meters will mean more accurate billing which means you wont overpay and get into unnecessary credit and if you are struggling to pay the energy companies can step in and try and work something out before you get thousands in debt and due a court date.

 

it in theory should make the market more competitive as smaller suppliers can buy on day rate prices for electric and gas and pass the savings on to the customers directly where as the big 6 by regulation are paying for electric and gas 12-14months in advance and if the price drops over that period they cant then do anything as its already paid for which means customers then bare the costs. With smart meters energy suppliers should be able to accurately tell how much electric and gas they need to buy to sell to their customers and should be able to buy at better prices which in theory makes the market for customers more competitive as the savings should be passed on..... if this will happen or not i cant say.

Smart meters will also allow energy companies and in turn the national grid/ distributors to work out what load there is on the national grid and how much electricity is needed to help ensure everyone gets the electric they need with minimal over or under generation.

 

One benefit to Joe blogs is you are being billed for what you are using not what the energy companies think you are using which means you wont be getting estimated bills and spending your time ringing energy companies up to sort it out, or spend hours complaining to energy companies. Also if you are that way inclined you can see your usage and be conscious of how much you are using in real time and try to reduce your usage and therefore reduce the size of your bills.

 

There are a lot of things to consider with smart meters and how useful they are and above is just a few from both sides of the fence

Listen, you can access your router configuration and change passwords, you can do this on your pc and phone, you can also install software on your pc and phone to increase your security and prevent data theft.. You have no choice over what software is on that meter.

 

Joe Bloggs could regularly tell the electricity or gas company the meter reading if they are so damned worried about the electricity they use and would be as accurate for a quarterly bill as a smart meter!

 

The lack of security on those meters is well known and exploited.

 

The tinfoil may be useful as it appears that these meters are not surge proof and are responsible for many house fires in the USA and Australia as the meter catches fire during surges. You can always use it to try and beat the flames out!

 

If you want one fine, you live with poor data security, increased risk of disconnection either inadvertently by the electricity supplier or deliberately by a hacker. Enjoy your life, just don't cry to us when your lights go out!

Edited January 1, 2016 by secretagentmole

[Zenduri]

Just wow, so hostile and so tinfoil.... I was only trying to have a reasonable discussion without exorbitant amounts of emotion.

 

 

Listen, you can access your router configuration and change passwords, you can do this on your pc and phone, you can also install software on your pc and phone to increase your security and prevent data theft.. You have no choice over what software is on that meter.

 

True but it's still relatively easy for anyone with the know how to access your router and monitor all of your traffic including bank log ins etc with or without you changing you password so this is entirely defunct. Same goes for the software on most PC's as the users either have the settings too lax or use rubbish software like Norton which couldn't stop a child let alone a seasoned internet miscreant.

 

 

The lack of security on those meters is well known and exploited.

 

Again 99.9% of this well known and exploited data is for US and Aussie meters which are entirely different to UK ones so this is a non starter argument.

 

 

The tinfoil may be useful as it appears that these meters are not surge proof and are responsible for many house fires in the USA and Australia as the meter catches fire during surges. You can always use it to try and beat the flames out!

Again this is entirely a nonstarter as these are poorly made US and Aussie meters, the UK ones are entirely different and please do find me a ream of examples of UK smart meters causing fires to the extent of the US and Aussie ones. You are more likely to have your house burnt down in the UK by an old style meter than a smart meter.

 

 

If you want one fine, you live with poor data security, increased risk of disconnection either inadvertently by the electricity supplier or deliberately by a hacker. Enjoy your life, just don't cry to us when your lights go out!

 

The fact is i dare say 99% of the folks on this website have worse data security than a smart meter. Christ if you want to talk about data security do you even realize how easy it is to commit ID theft in the UK, a Name and a town is all you need my friend and you can obtain anything and everything about the person. (Note i am not that way inclined, I used to work for a credit card company and dealt with ID theft on a daily basis)

 

So when it comes to data security there are infinitely more ways to get more useful and valuable information than hacking a smart meter to see if you are watching TV or out on your hols. Its a damn site easier for a burglar to knock on your door, and quicker than hacking a smart meter, to find out if you are in or not!

Edited January 1, 2016 by Zenduri

[secretagentmole]

Just wow, so hostile and so tinfoil.... I was only trying to have a reasonable discussion without exorbitant amounts of emotion.

 

 

True but it's still relatively easy for anyone with the know how to access your router and monitor all of your traffic including bank log ins etc with or without you changing you password so this is entirely defunct. Same goes for the software on most PC's as the users either have the settings too lax or use rubbish software like Norton which couldn't stop a child let alone a seasoned internet miscreant.

 

Again 99.9% of this well known and exploited data is for US and Aussie meters which are entirely different to UK ones so this is a non starter argument.

 

 

Again this is entirely a nonstarter as these are poorly made US and Aussie meters, the UK ones are entirely different and please do find me a ream of examples of UK smart meters causing fires to the extent of the US and Aussie ones. You are more likely to have your house burnt down in the UK by an old style meter than a smart meter.

 

 

The fact is i dare say 99% of the folks on this website have worse data security than a smart meter. Christ if you want to talk about data security do you even realize how easy it is to commit ID theft in the UK, a Name and a town is all you need my friend and you can obtain anything and everything about the person. (Note i am not that way inclined, I used to work for a credit card company and dealt with ID theft on a daily basis)

 

So when it comes to data security there are infinitely more ways to get more useful and valuable information than hacking a smart meter to see if you are watching TV or out on your hols. Its a damn site easier for a burglar to knock on your door, and quicker than hacking a smart meter, to find out if you are in or not!

Er EDMI make and supply the smart meters used in the US and the UK, so keep your tinfoil chap, you will need it!

 

http://www.edmi-meters.co.uk/

https://www.edmi-meters.com/Country/America.aspx

 

You are more likely to have your house burnt down by a new meter, apparently the construction is completely different. As for knocking on a house door to see if the occupant is in or out, only good for that moment in time and even then they could be on the crapper or in a shed down the garden. Being able to monitor electricity consumption remotely and then see if someone is in means you can keep an eye out over a couple of days and should usage be low, in you go! The data is not secure and not likely to be either seeing as they use a mobile phone network!

Edited January 1, 2016 by secretagentmole

[Luckyshot]

Er EDMI make and supply the smart meters used in the US and the UK, so keep your tinfoil chap, you will need it!

 

http://www.edmi-meters.co.uk/

https://www.edmi-meters.com/Country/America.aspx

 

You are more likely to have your house burnt down by a new meter, apparently the construction is completely different. As for knocking on a house door to see if the occupant is in or out, only good for that moment in time and even then they could be on the crapper or in a shed down the garden. Being able to monitor electricity consumption remotely and then see if someone is in means you can keep an eye out over a couple of days and should usage be low, in you go! The data is not secure and not likely to be either seeing as they use a mobile phone network!

 

 

My smart meter runs at 1p an hour unless I'm in the shower 10 min a day so, apart from that 10 min a day how does anyone know whether I'm in or not going by my smart meter I'm intrigued.

[STOTTO]

 

 

My smart meter runs at 1p an hour unless I'm in the shower 10 min a day so, apart from that 10 min a day how does anyone know whether I'm in or not going by my smart meter I'm intrigued.

 

“The law of probability”

[Luckyshot]

 

The law of probability

There's no need to hack a smart meter for that.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Luckyshot

[STOTTO]

There's no need to hack a smart meter for that.

 

Every technological enhance is a governmental opportunity to limit the public’s future wiggle-room, its own agenda to advance. Are you in to this or like many do you choose to pass??

[felly100]

Every technological enhance is a governmental opportunity to limit the public’s future wiggle-room, its own agenda to advance. Are you in to this or like many do you choose to pass??

Are you running windows 95?

[STOTTO]

Are you running windows 95?

 

Only because it’s an improvement on the carrier pigeons which I am convinced were being intercepted by government hawks!! However, I detected less ruffled feathers than on the forum!

[felly100]

Only because it’s an improvement on the carrier pigeons which I am convinced were being intercepted by government hawks!! However, I detected less ruffled feathers than on the forum!

Good answer!

I think when there is a rise of the machines,my smart meter won't be involved.

[STOTTO]

It’s the relentless and constant little administrative intrusional creeps, (not necessarily agents of the government) that I find objectionable, I believe to the non-Neolithic it is known as progress, regressional advancement I call it, 'Y' I'm not sure!

[Ttfjlc]

Er EDMI make and supply the smart meters used in the US and the UK, so keep your tinfoil chap, you will need it!

 

http://www.edmi-meters.co.uk/

https://www.edmi-meters.com/Country/America.aspx

 

You are more likely to have your house burnt down by a new meter, apparently the construction is completely different. As for knocking on a house door to see if the occupant is in or out, only good for that moment in time and even then they could be on the crapper or in a shed down the garden. Being able to monitor electricity consumption remotely and then see if someone is in means you can keep an eye out over a couple of days and should usage be low, in you go! The data is not secure and not likely to be either seeing as they use a mobile phone network!

I don't believe you have done all your homework on this pal, yes EDMI make smart meters and are generally fitted by G4S. Last I knew BG use Landis & Gyr meters and Eon use Elster. As for the fires abroad I cannot comment but I believe on these shores fires are caused MORE by loose connections fitted by people on price work than anything else.

[mossberg-operator]

In a few years time power companies will start charging You with different, personalized rates, based on your consumption. Highest tariff will be the afternoon period 2-10pm, highst demand on their network, etc. So, to save money You will be forced to run the washing machine, diswasher, etc overnight. It is not aout saving money for You, it is to generate more income to them.

[Yellow Bear]

In a few years time power companies will start charging You with different, personalized rates, based on your consumption. Highest tariff will be the afternoon period 2-10pm, highst demand on their network, etc. So, to save money You will be forced to run the washing machine, diswasher, etc overnight. It is not aout saving money for You, it is to generate more income to them.

The house we have just taken on has a white meter for lower cost supply off peak - we run in this period whenever possible - no problem

Edited January 3, 2016 by Yellow Bear

[secretagentmole]

In a few years time power companies will start charging You with different, personalized rates, based on your consumption. Highest tariff will be the afternoon period 2-10pm, highst demand on their network, etc. So, to save money You will be forced to run the washing machine, diswasher, etc overnight. It is not aout saving money for You, it is to generate more income to them.

Remember Economy 7?

[Zenduri]

I dont think you know what economy 7 is personally or understand anything of the smart metering matter other than what some anti government US websites can feed you.

 

I shall leave this at that as I am considerably more well informed on the matter than a few blogs from US crazies

Edited January 3, 2016 by Zenduri

[secretagentmole]

I dont think you know what economy 7 is personally or understand anything of the smart metering matter other than what some anti government US websites can feed you.

 

I shall leave this at that as I am considerably more well informed on the matter than a few blogs from US crazies

Economy 7 was a cheaper rate of electricity that was recorded on a separate meter. The method of switching over varied, but there was a signal broadcast alongside radio 4 that used to switch the meters over! The period that 7 ran from was usually from 12:30 at night till 7:30 in the morning, which is why some Bosch domestic appliances like dishwashers and washing machines had built in timers. Houses would warm up their storage heaters during this time frame so that the house was warm when you got up and cold when you got home from work! The hot water cylinder would also heat up during this time.

 

I do not rely on the opinions of "crazy's" blogs either,

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22608085

 

http://utilityweek.co.uk/news/with-smart-meters-its-time-to-get-real-about-data-protection/1096522#.Voo-UhWLTIU

 

http://www.smartgridnews.com/story/7-serious-smart-meter-security-threats-do-not-involve-hacking-network/2014-07-28

Edited January 4, 2016 by secretagentmole

[VicW]

We are still on the Economy 7 system, it hasn't been discontinued as some people think.

Our meter is so old that the changeover is done by a clock built into the meter that feeds two digital meter readouts, on for the day rate and the other for the night rate.

It used to be said that if you have a fridge and a freezer then Economy 7 was worth having. We do all our washing at night and our hot water heats up during the off peak period as well.

 

Vic.

[Nial]

What are you like secretagentmole coming up with your crazy American conspiracy theories about this so called "Economy 7".

 

 

Zenduir is either about 14 or has money in the great green scam

[Zenduri]

What are you like secretagentmole coming up with your crazy American conspiracy theories about this so called "Economy 7".

 

 

Zenduir is either about 14 or has money in the great green scam

 

Or maybe this topic and the discussion around and the energy market and suppliers as well as the technology and regulation is something I have been engaged in and aware of for.......... the last 6 years. Maybe i actually have a good understanding ofwhat I'm talking about and understand it better than most but heaven forbid I should be will enough informed. Whilst i understand the subject matter and I can look at things quite objectively around smart meters with an ability to criticize them where appropriate I don't subscribe to the Daily mail reading, tin foil hat wearing ill informed mob that pops up occasionally.

 

Also try to be less insulting and "clever" it makes you like a child in this situation

 

I do not rely on the opinions of "crazy's" blogs either,

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-22608085

 

 

The article heavily cites the US smart meters again, even down to a report it cites towards the end by Brian Krebs. The article also quotes a security expert saying;

 

"There are many diverse reasons for hacking attacks - one of them might be revenge. They can put a business out of business - if I can raise the price of electricity for a business I don't like for three months they might have trouble paying that off."

 

considering the pricing for a meter or customer is not done on the meter itself but in the energy suppliers internal systems you can change the unit price on the meter to £100 a unit but at the supplier side when the bills produced it will still be the correct pence per unit, so this guy whilst having some knowledge is only going at this half-assed with no understanding of the market. The only time the article suggested they are hack-able was relating to smart meters in Puerto Rica in 2009. As we all know Puerto Rica leads the world in technology and data security and there have been no advances in the tech since 2009!

 

 

http://utilityweek.c...22#.Voo-UhWLTIU

 

 

 

Spanish smart meters with inferior security to the UK ones (which the article even ruddy states) Article written by an unaccredited journalist and quoting someone who I can find no reference to outside of this article. The article itself, if you read it, actually discusses appropriate regulation and accountability for energy suppliers when dealing with smart meters and proper security measures for the meters.

 

 

http://www.smartgrid...work/2014-07-28

 

 

Kris Ardis is Executive Director for Energy Products at Maxim Integrated. In this first installment of a two-part series, he outlines seven security threats that do NOT involve hacking the network. Kris has a motive — his firm sells solutions to these threats. - American smart meters again by a unknown and unaccredited "media outlet" using discussion and opinion from someone with a VESTED INTEREST to spread and propagate concern about smart meters. Even if i could read the article in full (which i cant because the web page is dead) that summary alone shows bias and again on the subject of inferior American smart meters.

 

 

I don't wish to continue this as its getting quite tedious and we should agree to disagree but if you want to keep on with this rhetoric I'll keep replying. It might actually surprise you to know I'm extremely critical of energy suppliers and the energy market but when i engage in this topic i try to do so with an informed and reasonable approach. I came into this to poke a bit of jest at some of the conspiracies and unfounded opinions running about, hence the tin foil hat/ daily mail reader comment, but my god i've kicked a hornets nest. If at any point I am wrong and it can be reliable corrected and cited properly i will happily apologize for any incorrect comments, I'm only human after all. but so far i've seen absolutely nothing.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Zenduri

[Ttfjlc]

Or maybe this topic and the discussion around and the energy market and suppliers as well as the technology and regulation is something I have been engaged in and aware of for.......... the last 6 years. Maybe i actually have a good understanding ofwhat I'm talking about and understand it better than most but heaven forbid I should be will enough informed. Whilst i understand the subject matter and I can look at things quite objectively around smart meters with an ability to criticize them where appropriate I don't subscribe to the Daily mail reading, tin foil hat wearing ill informed mob that pops up occasionally.

 

Also try to be less insulting and "clever" it makes you like a child in this situation

 

 

The article heavily cites the US smart meters again, even down to a report it cites towards the end by Brian Krebs. The article also quotes a security expert saying;

 

"There are many diverse reasons for hacking attacks - one of them might be revenge. They can put a business out of business - if I can raise the price of electricity for a business I don't like for three months they might have trouble paying that off."

 

considering the pricing for a meter or customer is not done on the meter itself but in the energy suppliers internal systems you can change the unit price on the meter to £100 a unit but at the supplier side when the bills produced it will still be the correct pence per unit, so this guy whilst having some knowledge is only going at this half-assed with no understanding of the market. The only time the article suggested they are hack-able was relating to smart meters in Puerto Rica in 2009. As we all know Puerto Rica leads the world in technology and data security and there have been no advances in the tech since 2009!

 

 

 

 

 

Spanish smart meters with inferior security to the UK ones (which the article even ruddy states) Article written by an unaccredited journalist and quoting someone who I can find no reference to outside of this article. The article itself, if you read it, actually discusses appropriate regulation and accountability for energy suppliers when dealing with smart meters and proper security measures for the meters.

 

 

 

 

Kris Ardis is Executive Director for Energy Products at Maxim Integrated. In this first installment of a two-part series, he outlines seven security threats that do NOT involve hacking the network. Kris has a motive — his firm sells solutions to these threats. - American smart meters again by a unknown and unaccredited "media outlet" using discussion and opinion from someone with a VESTED INTEREST to spread and propagate concern about smart meters. Even if i could read the article in full (which i cant because the web page is dead) that summary alone shows bias and again on the subject of inferior American smart meters.

 

 

I don't wish to continue this as its getting quite tedious and we should agree to disagree but if you want to keep on with this rhetoric I'll keep replying. It might actually surprise you to know I'm extremely critical of energy suppliers and the energy market but when i engage in this topic i try to do so with an informed and reasonable approach. I came into this to poke a bit of jest at some of the conspiracies and unfounded opinions running about, hence the tin foil hat/ daily mail reader comment, but my god i've kicked a hornets nest. If at any point I am wrong and it can be reliable corrected and cited properly i will happily apologize for any incorrect comments, I'm only human after all. but so far i've seen absolutely nothing.

Well said that man!

[Nial]

"but my god i've kicked a hornets nest."

 

No you haven't, a few people have posted sceptical comments, you seem very sensitive to being challenged. While you're at it you could try to be a bit less condescending.

 

Unthreaded post on Bishop Hill....

 

http://www.bishop-hill.net/unthreaded/

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

"Smart Meters - A letter in The Times today from a disgruntled electricity user with a smart meter. His cheap tariff has come to an end.

He can't switch to another cheap tariff though as other leccy companies only accept new customers with "normal" meters.

Result - his smart meter is giving him a 28% rise in his bills for the foreseeable future.

 

Think I'll decline any offers of a smart meter as long as possible."

 

Jan 5, 2016 at 7:54 PM | Ted

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

I'm a chartered engineer in my late 40's and know how the world (and electricity generation/ distribution) works.

 

We won't be getting a smart meter any time soon.

[secretagentmole]

"but my god i've kicked a hornets nest."

 

No you haven't, a few people have posted sceptical comments, you seem very sensitive to being challenged. While you're at it you could try to be a bit less condescending.

 

Unthreaded post on Bishop Hill....

 

http://www.bishop-hill.net/unthreaded/

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

"Smart Meters - A letter in The Times today from a disgruntled electricity user with a smart meter. His cheap tariff has come to an end.

He can't switch to another cheap tariff though as other leccy companies only accept new customers with "normal" meters.

Result - his smart meter is giving him a 28% rise in his bills for the foreseeable future.

 

Think I'll decline any offers of a smart meter as long as possible."

 

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

I'm a chartered engineer in my late 40's and know how the world (and electricity generation/ distribution) works.

 

We won't be getting a smart meter any time soon.

Surely he could get a new meter installed by his new supplier? A bit galling after a couple of hundred have been lifted for the smart meter I know, but 28% of £290 (the average UK Electricity bill per annum) is £81.20 so after three years he gets his money back!

[paul1966]

we swapped supplier with a smart meter fitted, all we had to do was give the readings ourselves as the meters do have a LCD screen to show meter readings. aren't the latest smart meters now compatible with different suppliers?