darren m Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 got Jack ( 9month lab pup) sitting and walking on lead amongst the chickens at the farm, thought all was going well , so i makes him sit and stay and takes off is lead, i stood about 2 feet away from him and all was well , but then suddenly he bolted straight for the cockrel , i call him (voice ) then the whislte, but he just bloody ignored me. i had to chase him to catch him and i,m sorry to say, gave him a good lashing with is lead ( dont worry its only a rope type). Question is -- when your dog disobeys and seems like he is taking the ****, what do you use for punishment??? How to make him know your not taking any **** today. i must say i,ve never hit him or got mad ( never needed to) maybe thats the problem , he does'nt respect me. normally hes good and i'm pleased with his training so far, i know hes got the potenial . What shall i do ?. Darren . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Darren: First off it takes more than 1 or 2 lessons on the lead to effectively change a behaviour pattern. Try working in and amonst the chickens on a lead for heeling, and a light drag line for sit and down stays. Do this for the next 6 weeks. I know this may sound like a long time expecially since Jack has a beginning of an understanding of heeling and stays, but remember it takes time to build the competant reliable dog that you want. Put a years worth of training into him now and you will have a well trained dog for the next 11 or 12years. To effectivly teach a field lesson to your dog you should train that lesson 3 times, in 3 differrant locations, for six weeks each. In your case; the chickens are number one, find some sheep, or a rabbit pen for number two, and a flock of turkeys, ducks, or pheasants for number 3. What happens when you only run a lesson a couple of times, not fully training it, and then test the dog off lead, is you teach the dog that as soon as it is off lead it does not have to listen. To answer your question about correcting; 1) To effectively correct, you bring your dog back to the spot that the transgression took place. 2) Reposition your dog ex. re sit 3) Give your dog the comand. 4) Tell your dog good boy. 5) Step off from your dog if you are working on stays, remember to leave on your right foot. Remember you only have 8 seconds to complete this or the dog does not know what he is being corrected for. A trick that you can use to work the stay so that you can move some distance off from Jack, yet still have control of him if he brakes is as follows: Take a small dog stake with you, this can be one that screws into the ground, or that you hammer in as long as you have a place to attatch your six foot training lead. Before you start your training put the stake in the middle of the area so that it is surronded by chickens. When you are at the point that you want to leave Jacks side to test his steadiness,( around week 3 or 4), snap him onto the tie out stake with a slack lead. You now still have control of the dog even though you are not beside him. If he breaks you do not have to chase or yell or become frustrated and angry by having to run after him. Calmly tell him No, walk up to him and correct as above. Remember it takes time to train a finished dog, dont rush think your exercises through from start to finish, train, modify your exercise if you are not getting the desired results. Train some more, and then train some more with distractions. Above all ... Keep It FUN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon_decoyer Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Well if i was you and the training is going all well, and he disobays our orders and he never normally does, give him a good wack so then that tells him he has done something wrong. You have to show him who is boss otherwise you wont get now where in life. Once me and my grandad was driving back home from a pheasant shoot one day, We had a labradore (Can't Spell) in the back of our mitsubish 4life car and he was only eating one of the pheasants in the back wasn't he. We were on the motor way and had to wait a while till we could pull into a laby. We were really angry, my grandad went to get out to tell him off but i said to my grandad stay there let me deal with it. So i go out of the car really angry opened the boot and found out he has eaten a whole pheasant. So i gave him a massive slap and after that he curled up in the corner and didn't go any where near them again. People might think that its wrong but if you dont correct him/her, they will do it again. hoped this helped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermin Dropper Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Darren, Do not listen to that dip stick P D. take nttf's advice, use correction and posative reinforcement. and be patient, short commings in training is not the fault of the dog. If we wacked someone every time they made us angry I would be round Pigeon Decoyer's house right now, kicking 7 bowels of **** out of him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiercel Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 No wonder the dog curled up in the corner and went to sleep. So would i if id just eaten a whole pheasant. Attitudes to dog training like yours P D belong in the middle ages. If that episode is how your dog behaves with you in the car, does not say much, for how the dog has been trained this far. If or when you do get another dog, i would suggest that you either learn how to train a dog, or get it professionaly trained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted February 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Thanks for your support lads , i did wonder about PD's methods i know how they sometimes make you feel when they blatantly disobey, especially when someone else is watching. i shall continue with training, but leave retrieves out for a while and try and concentrate on his steadiness by keeping him on his lead more. tying his lead to a stake sounds like a good idea . cheers Darren . if any one else has a good method please feel free to post . Also out of curiosty, does PD's method work for any of you, when trying to get your dogs respect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiercel Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Darren would you "respect" anyone who hit you all the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 I,m not sure if Pigeon Decoyer is for real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermin Dropper Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 He can't be. if he was, he could always pm me for my address and come over for some formal training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Darren how is Jack coming along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 NTTF -- its slow going , with those chickens , but i can see a difference , he will obey me , but only when i,m in his face as such. then his attention wanders a bit. but hes coming on and he is only 9 months old on friday . Today he let me down though and chased a rabbit in to the next field, but came back only on my third blast of the whistle ( not good i know , but is first time) i did,nt make a big deal of it , just gave him praise for coming back . His sit stays are good/fair and his down is coming on , heal training is taking a little longer ok on lead , but off , cant seem to get him close in on my leg and hes not watching me as such ( which i would like so i can have his attention) Retrieves good to hand most of the time with rabbit skin dummy. All things that i,m sure we'll improve on ( hopefully) if you've got anymore tips , please feel free. Thanks for asking . Darren . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon_decoyer Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 well you think you all know everything, If your dog chased and killed your best firends dog or cat for example, what would you do punish it or just say ''NO'' everyone i have asked said punish it. Why wouldn't you? if you have been training it for 2 years and it does as you say until that now. I find if you punish it like tapping it with the leed not enough to really hurt it but just enough to tell him/her not to do it again! It works for me i dont give to ****s if you think its wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon_decoyer Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 even darren m has wrote in his second paragraph ''what would you use for punishment'' So it's a question right. So i answered it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Darren: If you want him to look up at you and to watch you while you are heeling, and to walk tighter to your leg teach him to catch treats from your mouth. This is simple and is a competitve obediance trick... sit your dog on lead beside you in the heel position. Get him to look up at you, click your tongue and drop a treat from your mouth. If he catches it great praise him up, HOWEVER if he misses it do not let him pick it up off the floor. You must pick it up before he gets to it and start the exercise over again. Once he has the catching down pat start heeling him click your tongue and drop the treat again he must catch it to get it if he misses you pick the treat up...he will get the picture very quickly, and will start to watch you as he heels and will probably be glued to your leg. If you have any problems or questions about this exercise give me a line. Goodluck and remember ...Keep it FUN Pigeon Decoyer You are entitled to your opinion, and to your training program. Your style of training is not one that I subscibe to or agree with. I find that using the style of training that I do that I do not end up in a predicament that would require me to disapline a dog for killing a neighbors cat. If your dog has been trained to listen and understands the commands, and heres the big one, been exposed to multiple situations with each command then you should not end up in that situation. My other pet peeve is people that walk their dogs off lead when the dog is not performing its duties in the field....keep your dog on lead and you will keep your dog under control. I beleive in this so strongly that even though I work on a 24,000 ha Island my guides and myself are to keep the dogs on lead until they are hunting in the feild. I have 34 dogs in this kennel and there are no exceptions. My Rule. I also believe that no one training program is perfect...if you keep your eyes, ears and mind open you will learn from others, no matter how long you have been in the dog game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juddy Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 clouting a dog for not doing as its told can make it nervouse and turn nasty i once had a dog that had been beaten and mistreated and the dog was wrecked if you told him off his ears would go back and he would pee every where so i would say never hit a dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyni Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 P.D. in your quest to become pigeonwatch poster of the year you have forgot to engage your brain, take a TIME OUT to reflect on some of your last posts wee man and have a little think before giving your fingers a work out. Im looking forward to your new book 'How to win friends and influence people' Dogs will respond to other stimuli without beating them and it is illegal to abuse an animal. It works for me i dont give to ****s if you think its wrong. Don't ever preach to me again about feeling sorry for KIDS looking at this site about shooting after the above statement you made. 2 is spelt two by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMMER BURT Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 my mate trains dogs for the sandringham estate,only way to tell a dog off is to pinch it's ear but do not draw blood once you have hit a dog with you hand as soon as you give it a command,ie rase your arm it will hit the deck and then you have to gang it's trust ,then you have two problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 I have only just got round to reading this Forum. I am not an expert on dogs.. I have dogs... I have had dogs... Ive trained dogs my way... Love and understanding using the principles of reward for obedience is the key.... Most gun dogs, purposely bred.. springers, cockers, labs, retreivers, setters et al are just so keen to please they respond to love and affection... I have never had to forcibly discipline a dog by hitting it or beating it and would never do so. Sure the dog needs to know his position in the hierarchy but that is done by establishing in his mind that you are the provider and not by giving it a good kicking when it follows its natural instincts. I had a Springer Dog for 8 years before losing him prematurely a few years back and that dog gave me so much affection and was so totally loyal because of the way he had been treated in return.. You will only get out what you put in and with most dogs this will be multiplied 10 fold. New to the flock... you obviously know where im coming from. Pigeon Decoyer... You got a lot of growing up to do boy and the sooner the better. I would be tempted not to respond to Forums that you obviously know little if anything about. I feel sorry for any dog that might be in your care as it is obviously on a higher mental plane than you. FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 Hi Darren, It sounds like your lab is at the same stage as my 9 month old GSP. With all the trials and tribulations that I've had/am having. One thing that I can say is that the advice that I've been given on this forum by NTTF (and echoed by a few others) is sound and has been followed to the letter by me, with good results. This particular subject (the punishment of dogs) is very close to my heart, as I always have, and always will argue against anyone that beats a dog in any way. I'd be interested to hear how you get on with his training and maybe compare notes as time progresses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooting widow Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 I am a behaviourist and so far in all my years of training dogs, including the most problematic, I have never hit a dog. If you want respect flatten him....thats is place him on his side in a flat position. This position is the ultimate submissive and puts you in the more dominant place. That said this is about respect not about training and the comments made earlier as far as the training itself goes should be followed. A dog that is scared of you will never be completely trustworthy anyhow! Hope that helps.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avvit Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 dog training is a piece of cake,think of your dog as being a two year old kid ,and train accordingly.Put yourself in a position where your training can,t go wrong,train by trickery .Remember you are far more intelligent than your dog.Would you really give a two year old kid a good hiding for not understanding a lesson,i think not.Remember nothing succeeds like success.Put thought into your training and you,ll find yourself in a win win situation every time.Avvit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyni Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 I feel I have to echo the above statements. Show your dog some LOVE and get there trust beat a dog and you will end up with a dog that has no trust in you. Just make sure they know who wear the trousers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.