Chopping??

[Underdog]

Old bendy barrel Baikal that some of you know I own, not worth much and I was wondering about turning it into a truck gun (for want of a better expression).

 

What are the legal requirements on overall length?

 

U.

[welshwarrior]

24" barrel

Edited February 16, 2016 by welshwarrior

[brett1985]

minimum overall length has to be 60cm or more iirc.

 

might be worth checking that though... lol

[welshwarrior]

Overall length not reliant on an OU Sbs or single it's for pumps and semis.

[brett1985]

ok, so this has now confused the crud out of me...

 

taken from the 'guide on firearms licencing law' published December 2015:

 

Those weapons and ammunition, which are prohibited, consist of:

 

i) any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger (section 5(1)(a));

 

ii) any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges (section 5(1)(ab));

 

iii) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than 60 centimetres in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus (section 5(1)(aba));

 

iv) any self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which is not an air weapon or chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in length or is less than 40 inches in length overall (section 5(1)(ac));

 

v) any smooth-bore revolver gun other than one which is chambered for 9mm rimfire cartridges or a muzzle-loading revolver gun (section 5(1)(ad));

 

 

what I understand from this is that pump or self loading minimum length is 40 inches, and any other firearm is 60cm.

why oh why can they not make this clearer?

[Harry136]

For shotguns the overall length has to be no shorter than 40 inches with a barrel no shorter than 24 inches.

[brett1985]

For shotguns the overall length has to be no shorter than 40 inches with a barrel no shorter than 24 inches.

see, that's where the confusing part is.

it specifically states on there that that applies to "any self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun"

so taking that at face value, it makes no mention to O/U or SXS, only semi auto or pump.

[la bala]

Turn it into a long barrel pistol UD

[Underdog]

So a single can be pistol gripped and a 24" barrel?

[Harry136]

No, the overall length still has to be a minimum of 40 inches. So for a minimum you can have a shotgun with a 24 inch barrel and 16 inches of action and stock. As far as i'm aware you cant turn one type of firearm into another, ie, you cant turn a shotgun into a LBP.

[Underdog]

I thought only pump and automatic shotguns have to be an overall length of 40"+??

Edited February 16, 2016 by Underdog

[Harry136]

All shotguns

[Harry136]

For more guidance phone your Firearms licencing Dept.

[Underdog]

Ahhr, I see. 40" minimum.

Cheers.

[figgy]

I cut a SxS down but only went to 24 1/2" on the barrels, that way if the end gets damaged there is still a bit to tidy it up.

[saddler]

No, the overall length still has to be a minimum of 40 inches. So for a minimum you can have a shotgun with a 24 inch barrel and 16 inches of action and stock. As far as i'm aware you cant turn one type of firearm into another, ie, you cant turn a shotgun into a LBP.

PLEASE QUOTE THE PART OF THE FIREARMS ACT WHICH STIPULATES 40" MINIMUM LENGTH FOR ALL SHOTGUNS.

That rule is pump & semi ONLY irrespective of S1/S2 status.

 

Nornal S2 shotguns only need comply with 24" barrel length

[Harry136]

When in doubt contact firearms licencing

[saddler]

ok, so this has now confused the crud out of me...

 

taken from the 'guide on firearms licencing law' published December 2015:

 

Those weapons and ammunition, which are prohibited, consist of:

 

i) any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger (section 5(1)(a));

 

ii) any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges (section 5(1)(ab));

 

iii) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than 60 centimetres in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus (section 5(1)(aba));

 

iv) any self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which is not an air weapon or chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in length or is less than 40 inches in length overall (section 5(1)(ac));

 

v) any smooth-bore revolver gun other than one which is chambered for 9mm rimfire cartridges or a muzzle-loading revolver gun (section 5(1)(ad));

 

 

what I understand from this is that pump or self loading minimum length is 40 inches, and any other firearm is 60cm.

why oh why can they not make this clearer?

The red part you highlighted....that refers to FIREARMS...Section 1.

S2 shotguns are, er, SHOTGUNS = different rules....as per the FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH which specifically uses the phrase SMOOTH BORE....

[Underdog]

Hmm, I thought that too!

[saddler]

When in doubt contact firearms licencing

ZERO DOUBT - as working to the wording in the Firearms Acts!

So, no need to contact an FEO... (some of whom are not fully aversed on the Acts anyway!)

[Underdog]

So I can chop and stumpy stock it :-)

[brett1985]

The red part you highlighted....that refers to FIREARMS...Section 1.

S2 shotguns are, er, SHOTGUNS = different rules....as per the FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH which specifically uses the phrase SMOOTH BORE....

 

yes, its says smooth bore... but the way its worded directly relates it to self loading or pump action.

if it said self loading, pump action AND single or double shot smooth bore guns, it would make more sense.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

So I can chop and stumpy stock it :-)

 

NO!

 

Read this please;

 

2.7

“Shotgun” means a smooth-bore gun (not being an air gun) which:

a) has a barrel not less than 24 inches in length and does not have any barrel with a

bore exceeding 2 inches in diameter. The length of the barrel is measured from the

muzzle to the point of ignition (breech face). For a muzzle-loading gun, the point of

ignition may be taken as the touch-hole or nipple that is nearest to the breach;

b)

either has no magazine or has a non-detachable magazine incapable of holding

more than two cartridges (see paragraphs 2.13, 2.14 and 2.15 for further

information). It should be noted that a gun that has been adapted to have such a

magazine only meets this criterion if the magazine bears an approved mark and the

adaptation has been certified in writing either by one of the two Proof Houses or by

such other person as the Secretary of State has designated, as having been carried

out in a manner approved by the Secretary of State; and c) is not a revolver gun (that is,

a gun containing a series of chambers, which revolve as part of the firing cycle).

2.8

When considering the classification of smooth-bore guns, special attention must be paid to

the length of the barrel and the overall length. With the exception of those chambered for .22

rimfire cartridges, section 1(2) of the 1988 Act raised to the prohibited category (see Chapter

3) all self-loading and pump-action models which are either short-barrelled (under 24 inches)

or short in overall length (under 40 inches). For the purpose of calculating overall length any

detachable, retractable or other movable butt-stock should be disregarded. References to

‘shotguns’ in the 1968 Act may be taken generally to mean section 2 shotguns, rather than

those subject to sections 1 and 5 of the 1968 Act, unless otherwise stated.

Edited February 16, 2016 by TIGHTCHOKE

[saddler]

 

 

NO!

 

Read this please;

 

2.7

“Shotgun” means a smooth-bore gun (not being an air gun) which:

a) has a barrel not less than 24 inches in length and does not have any barrel with a

bore exceeding 2 inches in diameter. The length of the barrel is measured from the

muzzle to the point of ignition (breech face). For a muzzle-loading gun, the point of

ignition may be taken as the touch-hole or nipple that is nearest to the breach;

b)

either has no magazine or has a non-detachable magazine incapable of holding

more than two cartridges (see paragraphs 2.13, 2.14 and 2.15 for further

information). It should be noted that a gun that has been adapted to have such a

magazine only meets this criterion if the magazine bears an approved mark and the

adaptation has been certified in writing either by one of the two Proof Houses or by

such other person as the Secretary of State has designated, as having been carried

out in a manner approved by the Secretary of State; and c) is not a revolver gun (that is,

a gun containing a series of chambers, which revolve as part of the firing cycle).

2.8

When considering the classification of smooth-bore guns, special attention must be paid to

the length of the barrel and the overall length. With the exception of those chambered for .22

rimfire cartridges, section 1(2) of the 1988 Act raised to the prohibited category (see Chapter

3) all self-loading and pump-action models which are either short-barrelled (under 24 inches)

or short in overall length (under 40 inches). For the purpose of calculating overall length any

detachable, retractable or other movable butt-stock should be disregarded. References to

‘shotguns’ in the 1968 Act may be taken generally to mean section 2 shotguns, rather than

those subject to sections 1 and 5 of the 1968 Act, unless otherwise stated.

 

 

UD was referrring to the STOCK being chopped (on a non-pump/semi)

As long as the barrel is 24" or over = good to go

Barrel under 24" = S1 rules apply & need an FAC (again, non-pump/semi ONLY)

 

From some of the arguments/logic on here, my 14" barrel Browning is a Section 5 shotgun - yet it is legally held on FAC - being a .22 rimfire

 

Never ceases to amaze me how easily some folk get confused on such matters - not a dig at anyone - just proof that the UK laws are open to misinterpretation

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Well I disagree, the only way would to be to contact UDs Police Firearms Licencing Department.

 

 

 

I still maintain a smoothbore shotgun has to have a 24" barrel and an overal length of 40"

 

 

 

I think you are missing part of what is a badly written piece of guidance.

 

 

 

2.8

When considering the classification of smooth-bore guns, special attention must be paid to

the length of the barrel and the overall length. With the exception of those chambered for .22

rimfire cartridges, section 1(2) of the 1988 Act raised to the prohibited category (see Chapter

3) all self-loading and pump-action models which are either short-barrelled (under 24 inches)

or short in overall length (under 40 inches). For the purpose of calculating overall length any

detachable, retractable or other movable butt-stock should be disregarded. References to

‘shotguns’ in the 1968 Act may be taken generally to mean section 2 shotguns, rather than

those subject to sections 1 and 5 of the 1968 Act, unless otherwise stated.