buze Posted March 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I hope you can link with that above as I am not very good at that sort of thing but it is the new F16 Blaser advert and I enjoyed watching it. Nice photography! Nice change from Mr BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP reviews :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Two things here 1 Never believe anyone unless they are right behind you. 2 Some shot is highly visible like, platinum coated that really shines in the sun from Auntie.. Suppose it depends what target they're shooting, I've stood 90 degrees pressing the buttons to friends shooting at quite flat crossers or going away clays from in front of them and seen that a line from their barrels to the clay when they pulled the trigger they were way over the top and you see the wad flight way above the clay. If the gun is at 11o clock and clay is down at 10 o clock on a dropping clay when they pull the trigger you can tell they're behind it. Agree that standing behind is a lot more precise for most clays. But on some you can see from the car park Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Hi Figgy See you on the circuit soon...Get yourself on that North of England Team this year...Are you doing the N/S bun fight at Hodnet this year? from Yer Auntie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) Sorry Auntie I'm not doing the N vs S this year I'm shooting the registered at Hodnet the week before and then have a registered the week after or maybe the week after that. I know they Calendar is quite full around the Yearly bun fight. Don't think I'll make the first NOE selection at Blackpool but am planning on getting to the rest, not that I'll make the team, in the future maybe. You shooting the Essex Masters this year? Be good to see you round the circuit dusting a few Aunti Apologies for straying off topic. Edited March 8, 2016 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlivet Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 This from our last Wild Boar shoot. You can clearly see the shot string on the second bird. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kv-F1nTYL2c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 This from our last Wild Boar shoot. You can clearly see the shot string on the second bird. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kv-F1nTYL2c I could see the wad, but the shot stream beat me I am afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted March 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Well, we're off shooting this friday, and I'm going to take all the suggestions onboard, and have a go at paying special attention, stand JUST behind her, focus on the barrels and so on. I'll report :-) Thanks everyone for all the tidbits, keep them coming :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 So how did you get on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted March 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 So how did you get on? Well I would say a bit better, but it's still quite tough. I think all the suggestions help, but since we shoot in woodlands, it's actually next to impossible to see anything if the background of the shot is anything but sky. But, for the one I /could/ see the sky, I 'think' I did quite bit better than before. But, it's always dangerous to give an opinion given that it's so fleeting; so I've mostly told her that her brain is likely a lot better at deciding where to shoot than trying to rely on possibly flawed advise from the backseat driver... As soon as I remind her to stop 'thinking' about lead, she starts hitting the clays ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 A nice misty day you get super views of the string as it drags a cylinder of air with it - like the reverse of a vapour trail from a plane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 In my experience 9/10 people calling shot are actually just noting where the wad goes, even though after 15 yards or so they'll be on 2 completely different flight paths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 In my experience 9/10 people calling shot are actually just noting where the wad goes, even though after 15 yards or so they'll be on 2 completely different flight paths With the greatest respects what are you basing this on, what experience and how can you prove what you claim ? There is no wad with felt/fibre loads and the plastic wad itself can only sometimes be seen anyway, well after the sweet spot of the main shot cluster so only the very inexperienced are likely to confuse the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlivet Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) With the greatest respects what are you basing this on, what experience and how can you prove what you claim ? There is no wad with felt/fibre loads and the plastic wad itself can only sometimes be seen anyway, well after the sweet spot of the main shot cluster so only the very inexperienced are likely to confuse the two.Whilst I agree with the main thrust of your post I have to disagree that you can't see a fibre wad. On the video I posted you can quite clearly see the wad veer left just before the string hits the clay (this is a fibre only ground). It always amazes me when the wad damn near hits the clay but the bird is missed? Edited March 18, 2016 by Glenlivet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) In my experience 9/10 people calling shot are actually just noting where the wad goes, even though after 15 yards or so they'll be on 2 completely different flight paths With the greatest respects what are you basing this on, what experience and how can you prove what you claim ? There is no wad with felt/fibre loads and the plastic wad itself can only sometimes be seen anyway, well after the sweet spot of the main shot cluster so only the very inexperienced are likely to confuse the two.Umm, I sort of made it pretty clear what I was basing it on in the first few words: my experience... Ok I've only been shooting clays regularly for 9 years but you get out of anything what you put in. I shoot with blokes that have been clay shooting for the best part of 50 years and some of them don't know their Harris from their elbow, and will admit so! I didn't set out to "prove" anything, I offered an opinion based on the shooting I've done, as did everyone else. All the people I can recall with the exception of 2-3 I've ever asked when they've said "You're in front/behind/swirling wildly around" how they knew have said they were watching the wad and couldn't see the shot itself. "No wad with felt/fibre loads". I think I'll leave it there. Edited March 18, 2016 by Breastman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) Umm, I sort of made it pretty clear what I was basing it on in the first few words: my experience... Ok I've only been shooting clays regularly for 9 years but you get out of anything what you put in. I shoot with blokes that have been clay shooting for the best part of 50 years and some of them don't know their Harris from their elbow, and will admit so! I didn't set out to "prove" anything, I offered an opinion based on the shooting I've done, as did everyone else. All the people I can recall with the exception of 2-3 I've ever asked when they've said "You're in front/behind/swirling wildly around" how they knew have said they were watching the wad and couldn't see the shot itself. "No wad with felt/fibre loads". I think I'll leave it there. Well it's like this : to say emphatically that in your (experience 9/10 people calling shot are actually just noting where the wad goes, even though after 15 yards or so they'll be on 2 completely different flight paths ) would have to mean that you were positioned in the prime position of being able to see what they didn't see, i.e, that you were looking from behind and over the shoulder of the shooter or that you were behind the people mistakenly seeing the wad and interpreting it as the shot cloud . Not very likely in other words and in any case putting an actual number on it as 9 out of 10 is just simply plucking numbers out of thin air because for one thing who is to say you were right and not them ? Most felt/fibre wads nearasdammit disintegrate, my clay shooting experience only stretches to over 30 years so I'll just leave it there. Edited March 18, 2016 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) In my experience most people readily admit to not being able to see the shot cloud, not surprising since it's a bit of an anorak thing and most would simply not be interested enough. The cloud is a mega brief flash which is rarely bigger than a small dinner plate and not easily confused with a wad, also those who DO claim to be able to see it are invariably either very experienced clay shooters or coaches who have spent half a life time observing clay flights. Based on the above, when someone says they saw someones shot cloud I am inclined to believe them. Edited March 19, 2016 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted March 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 Guys, is it really necessary to snipe at each others like that? What about disagreeing constructively that people have different experience, someone says "in my experience..." and yes it's 100% sure his experience is completely different from anyone else. That doesn't make it less true, or less valid, you can happily disagree with it too without snipping -- I've known a few people with 30 years experience in a their fields who were *wrong* too (not that I'm saying you are, but you see what I mean) I'm pretty sure the plastic wad if present can represent a valid hint at where the shot is going, for a very short period of time as stated -- it makes some sort of sense. Perhaps it's a good /extra information/ that helps visualise the shot; now /relying/ on it as probably as bad as 'imagining' seeing the shot... Thats why I mentioned before that it's probably more dangerous to rely on /any/ information you've given, as 'bad' feedback will make things worse for the shooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted March 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 In my experience most people readily admit to not being able to see the shot cloud, not surprising since it's a bit of an anorak thing and most would simply not be interested enough. The could is a mega brief flash which is rarely bigger than a small dinner plate and not easily confused with a wad, also those who DO claim to be able to see it are invariably either very experienced clay shooters or coaches who have spent half a life time observing clay flights. Based on the above, when someone says they saw someones shot cloud I am inclined to believe them. I agree, and I'm stating to suspect that at least some don't /see anything at all/ on some occasion -- they just judge all the other bits of data they see from the shooter and their holistic brain can 'read' it to know where the gun is pointing. And it's very likely a lot more valid reading than the mentioned fleeting dinner plate you can occasionally see. Both the coaches I worked with are considerably older than me, and can't possibly have the same eyesight I have at 24/20 -- and they 'see' the shots when I can't see a damn thing most of the time, and wouldn't trust myself when I think I did :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlivet Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 Guys, is it really necessary to snipe at each others like that? What about disagreeing constructively that people have different experience, someone says "in my experience..." and yes it's 100% sure his experience is completely different from anyone else. That doesn't make it less true, or less valid, you can happily disagree with it too without snipping -- I've known a few people with 30 years experience in a their fields who were *wrong* too (not that I'm saying you are, but you see what I mean) I'm pretty sure the plastic wad if present can represent a valid hint at where the shot is going, for a very short period of time as stated -- it makes some sort of sense. Perhaps it's a good /extra information/ that helps visualise the shot; now /relying/ on it as probably as bad as 'imagining' seeing the shot... Thats why I mentioned before that it's probably more dangerous to rely on /any/ information you've given, as 'bad' feedback will make things worse for the shooter. I was using Usenet in the 90s and various forums since. Argi bargi is the nature of the beast - keyboard warriors at arms. When it kicks off leave them to it, to do otherwise risks prolonging the situation. Btw, in my experience you never see a "plate", only a string of shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 I was using Usenet in the 90s and various forums since. Argi bargi is the nature of the beast - keyboard warriors at arms. When it kicks off leave them to it, to do otherwise risks prolonging the situation. Btw, in my experience you never see a "plate", only a string of shot. I don't see it like that, it's basically offering robust arguments for what you happen to believe, I don't have anything against Breastman as I don't even know him but when you post on the internet then you have to be prepared to accept others may take you to task on it. Incidentally I said : (brief flash which is rarely bigger than a small dinner plate) I used the word plate to approximate the size of the cloud flash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted March 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 I was using Usenet in the 90s and various forums since. Argi bargi is the nature of the beast - keyboard warriors at arms. When it kicks off leave them to it, to do otherwise risks prolonging the situation. Btw, in my experience you never see a "plate", only a string of shot. <gibberish> Oh yes I've been there too. Hopefully my english improved since -- on the other hand back then I had to write my own cnews stack and exchange batches over X25 to 'be' on usenet from the north of france! Earliest post from me is 1990 -- but it took a while to figure out a way to bridge uucp email's over the same X25 network to 'post' -- I still remember the sense of achievement! ("internet" didn't exist for a good 5 years in france) https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.minix/nCivplBzI9U/y-vkCzS-V6MJ Bleeping youngsters, they don't know how easy they have it ;-) </gibberish> On a side note, I also operate my own forum about photography, and I just have a zero tolerance for snipping. If you can't be constructive, just go somewhere else -- but that's just me of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlivet Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) I don't see it like that, it's basically offering robust arguments for what you happen to believe, I don't have anything against Breastman as I don't even know him but when you post on the internet then you have to be prepared to accept others may take you to task on it. Incidentally I said : (brief flash which is rarely bigger than a small dinner plate) I used the word plate to approximate the size of the cloud flash. You'll notice I was quoting Buze when I used plate... Edit : No you won't. , was in another post Edited March 18, 2016 by Glenlivet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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