paul1966 Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 when buying a lab puppy would you want both sire and dam to have full health checks? i am looking at a litter that just has the sire checked, hips 4-3 elbows 0-0, eyes unaffected , no info on dam. both are working dogs. any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 Yes especially with a lab hips and elbows etc really are a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1966 Posted March 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 i might find out if the dam has ever had health checks, how recent should the health checks should have been done to be of any value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PERCE Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 You can check health test results on myKC, all you need is the registered names. DNA tests are either done once or a pup came be hereditary clear by parentage. Hips / Elbows are done once. Eyes should be tested annually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1966 Posted March 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 i think i will give this litter a miss, it looks like the dam has never been tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 The vast % of labs bred will not be tested on both sides. Quite normal for somone who is only taking 1 litter of a decent working bitch not to have her hips or eyes done, often studs are thou depending how well used he is. Depending how well u know the breeder or word of mouth but it would not put me of a pup if they are decent working lines. Possibly the breeder has had that bitch's line for generations and never had any problems, will depend how hard it is worked too. If working hard/plenty of days and lasting for years as previous dams have is there really a problem. None of my labs have been hip tested or there dams or in some cases sires too. In all my years with labs/beating/picking up never heard of a locally bred dog to have any hip problems, or any working labfor that matter. Possibly just been very lucky thou Just got to go on judgement, why are they breeding? Is bitch as good as he claims? So helps if u know them or know folk that do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1966 Posted March 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 thanks, i still have not heard back if all the pups have gone, he says both parents are working dogs, used for picking up, and both can be viewed so he seems to be up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 The vast % of labs bred will not be tested on both sides. Quite normal for somone who is only taking 1 litter of a decent working bitch not to have her hips or eyes done, often studs are thou depending how well used he is. Depending how well u know the breeder or word of mouth but it would not put me of a pup if they are decent working lines. Possibly the breeder has had that bitch's line for generations and never had any problems, will depend how hard it is worked too. If working hard/plenty of days and lasting for years as previous dams have is there really a problem. None of my labs have been hip tested or there dams or in some cases sires too. In all my years with labs/beating/picking up never heard of a locally bred dog to have any hip problems, or any working labfor that matter. Possibly just been very lucky thou Just got to go on judgement, why are they breeding? Is bitch as good as he claims? So helps if u know them or know folk that do To be fair being in Scotland people are probably too tight to pay for testing. Yes they are only working dogs but if a normal owner gets one with dysplasia they will have a crippled and very expensive to treat from an early age. Labs it's been so common there is no reason to take the chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 I would want at least one parent to be clear for PRA, CNM, EIC and SD2 IF I had no plans to breed from my pup. If I did I would want to know both parents' status. Hips and elbows plus current eye certificates would be a must either way for me. But there again perhaps I'm a bit pedantic lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 To be fair being in Scotland people are probably too tight to pay for testing. Yes they are only working dogs but if a normal owner gets one with dysplasia they will have a crippled and very expensive to treat from an early age. Labs it's been so common there is no reason to take the chance How many boys on the beating line that u know and breed 1 litter off a bitch get it hip/elbow scored plus eye tested never mind genetic testing done? My mate ended up driving down to southern eng to find a lab pup all health tested on both sides as couldnae find any anywhere. I reccommended him a pup bred by a lad i know had bitch's line in family for 8 gens and does a lot of days working them usually work up into doube figures I'd imagine most wildfowling club bred dogs will be similar too, just breeding decent healthy dogs, and ur relying on them not to bred if any history/sign of problems I've honestly never ever heard of anyone owning/or mate of mate type thing, with a lab having displsia, 1 of the shoots i go to usually has about 15 labs in the beating line, plus god knows how many in picking up line been going there 30yrs, go to plenty other shoots with some FT labs boys, even they don't insist on complete heallth checks for there working dogs (different story for their FT potentials). Know a few grouse keepers get all there dogs from a rescue centre and are fine health wise. It depends wot u want, u pay ur money u take ur chance. They're are no guarantees even with 100% health tested dogs The biggest problem now is too many folk breeding for cash and pups no longer staying local, in old days most pups would go round local estates beating lines and if there was any problems/health issues it would soon get back to breeder/related pups owners so none of those pups are bred from Is it not becoming far more common to hip test alsorts of breeds now? Have heard of gwp's being done (when their biggest prblem is epilepsy) and even springers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fal Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 I think the health tests are getting crazy now, the age they get done at isn't really a very good indicator of whether or not they have good hips or elbows. Most are done at just over one, as soon as the BVA will accept it as they have to be 12 months or over. A dog that could get tested at 3-4 years of age could have had very good elbows at 12 months old, then take in to account jumping fences, four years worth of running around working, all that wear and tear and they could fail, which to me isn't a true indicator of bad elbows. Hips aren't so bad for wear and tear. Same as with the eyes, if you keep testing the dog all it's life, eventually it will fail, then what, all the offspring it has had would be parented by a failed eye test dog? For me personally, as long as the dogs had single figure hips, a clear eye test at some point, not a current failed one, that would do me. Elbows is a relatively recent test for labs etc It wouldn't worry me getting a pup from a dog that hadn't had it's elbows tested, how did we all manage before these tests hey, no wonder the prices on dogs are CRAZY. On the other hand, I do believe we need to be looking after the gene pools of all breeds and only breeding for good dogs and not ending up like the stuff I see on crufts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PERCE Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 how did we all manage before these tests hey, no wonder the prices on dogs are CRAZY. You don't need to do the test to charge a fortune, £700 for pups seems the norm regardless of testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1966 Posted March 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 i think i have found a potential litter, is there anyone that understands hip scores etc and pedigree that can cast an eye over the sire and dam details and see if there is anything amiss. the details look ok to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fal Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 i think i have found a potential litter, is there anyone that understands hip scores etc and pedigree that can cast an eye over the sire and dam details and see if there is anything amiss. the details look ok to me. Hip scores start off from 0 and go up to 54. 54 being bad, single figures being best. Elbows go from 0-3 3 being bad, I would expect 0-0 elbows though. What are the sire and dams names, I have MyKC I can log in and check the health testing done on those dogs if you like. PM them if you don't want to post here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1966 Posted March 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Hip scores start off from 0 and go up to 54. 54 being bad, single figures being best. Elbows go from 0-3 3 being bad, I would expect 0-0 elbows though. What are the sire and dams names, I have MyKC I can log in and check the health testing done on those dogs if you like. PM them if you don't want to post here. thanks mate, bigbird has kindly offered to take a look at them so i am ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Two pairs of eyes are better than one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker boy Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Two pairs of eyes are better than one What happens if both pairs of eyes are blind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Then Paul is totally scuppered unless someone else offers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker boy Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Then Paul is totally scuppered unless someone else offers You know I'm only joking ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 I know lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fieldrangerdogs Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Two pairs of eyes are better than one I agree with checking eye tests etc but this is ridiculous!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 ^^ he's here all week folks lol :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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