Hornady v max 55 grain

[Paul223]

.223 speeds lol, 1600 fps and upward. Tony not really sure how many ways I can say this, 55 grain V max worked for me, very very well, bang flops and at distance too, usually no exit, that means the bullet expanded to fragmentation very quickly, mincing heart & lungs, as some have put it 'turning them to soup' very humane.

Both my mate and my nephew have similar experiences.

 

If the fox is spooked and full of adrenalin then dispite the 'soup like' internals, or as I've experienced in the past, one side of the chest missing then there is a slight chance the fox will run.

 

It makes no difference what bullet you use, sometimes foxes run on adrenalin, even when correctly plugged with the .243 it can happen.

 

Years ago I started off using soft points, now they will pencil through!

[TONY R]

Thats for 50s as well as 55s, but 50s are more distructive, i wonder why. I dont supose it could have anything what so ever to do with velocity could it. NO never.

[Paul223]

Eh? Quite sure 1600 fps is what Hornady state as minimum for the entire v max range?

 

Also 55's have better bc than 50's so likely to be holding more velocity at range, you seem to be thinking in muzzle speeds only.

 

Can you quantify what you mean by 'destructive' please?

[robbiep]

Thats for 50s as well as 55s, but 50s are more distructive, i wonder why. I dont supose it could have anything what so ever to do with velocity could it. NO never.

Hornady list as MV, for their 223 Vmax ammunition (US website)

 

55 grain 3240 fps.

53 grain 3465 fps.

 

You really think a 55 gr Vmax travelling at half a mile per second is not going to have highly destructive expansion ?

[TONY R]

What hornaday say is all well and good, but the v max 55s are made to work in a very broad spectrum of rifles the construction is not designed just around typical .223 speeds they have to work in rifles from .222 to the Badgers and middlesteads etc, so at the slower end whiuch is firmly where the .223 is their reliability will be compromised.

As for mass and BC, Speed gets in thew way again with the .223.

The 53 grain v max which is a lighter construction than the 55 incidentaly, and probably a better choice for your .223.

A 53 V max with a BC of .290 and a muzle velocity from REm varmint 26 inch at 3465 fpswhich no way will you get with 55s incidentaly. will at 200 yards be doiing 2775fps,

Now a >223 with a typical 35 grain offering with a .177 BC doing for arguments sake call it 4000FPS A speed which could easily be acchieved. will be doing 2795 fps at 200 yards not a huge difference in velocity perhaps and perhaps a 40 grain would be a better choice at just 4k. But the key point here is its no dissadvantage and the lighter construction is going to get a more reliable expansion than a 55 v max at those speeds.

Even when we jump to 500 yards the 53 is only doing 1913 fps compared to the 35s 1480 fps. Which although pretty academic at those speeds its an illustration speed at the begining plays a bigger part than you think. But link that Speed with a reliable bullet and then you are talking v maxes in 55 grain work but they are not reliable at typical .223 speeds like taipans bergeres etc.

[TONY R]

Hornady list as MV, for their 223 Vmax ammunition (US website)

 

55 grain 3240 fps.

53 grain 3465 fps.

 

You really think a 55 gr Vmax travelling at half a mile per second is not going to have highly destructive expansion ?

Chrono some then decide whhat you think to those figures, even if you get near them it wont be in a typical hunter style .223 like a tikka t3 or similar with a 22 inch barrel.

[Paul223]

I've emailed Hornady, should clear it up

[TONY R]

I've emailed Hornady, should clear it up

HARDLY THEY ARE THERE TO SELL THEIR PRODUCTS NOT ADMIT THEY ARE POOR IN A POPULAR BULLET WEIGH IN A POPULAR CAL AND IN A POPULAR SECTOR OF .22 PERFORMANCE, I MEAN LETS FACE FACTS YOU AND OTHERS ARE TAKEN IN BY THEIR PERFORMANCE NOW SO AN EMAIL FROM HORNADAY IS HARDLY GOING TO STEER YOU IS IT. ?

Or is this an admition in an inhadvertant way you dont perhaps have as much idea how they are performing as you say you have.

[Paul223]

If as you claim they are manufacturing these bullets to cope with higher speeds of the middlestead, swift and .22-250 then they will respond to my email accordingly.

 

I have plenty of experience with these thank you, just cba arguing a point with someone who himself does not use those bullets.

[Dougy]

Happy people of PW,

Just another 2pence worth of my findings with 22 cf bullets in the 60grain and below, well 50s not gone lower.

I have had a few good hits on Charlie that I had not picked up at the point of impact, and those where with 55grain Nosler BTs, those were the bullets that I got to group the best in my original Sako 75. I still use those weight and make in the re-barrelled Sako with good results, so I blame unlucky bullet placement on the odd runner I had.

Now with Hornady Vmax in 50,53 and 60s I have probably had less, in fact the 60s had the most explosive expansion that I could see, note I said could see. those shots were up to around 275 yds and the closer the more visible it was.

Now the 50,53 and 55s showed allot less trauma than the larger, simply because nearly all of them did not exit, and again shots taken out to just under 300 with this weight range. In fact some of the quarry showed very little if no damage at all, finding an exit wound was near on impossible and the entry was nearly as hard.

 

the speeds range from 3850 down to 3550

[TONY R]

If as you claim they are manufacturing these bullets to cope with higher speeds of the middlestead, swift and .22-250 then they will respond to my email accordingly.

 

I have plenty of experience with these thank you, just cba arguing a point with someone who himself does not use those bullets.

Well if they are not heavier construction for use in bigger .22s how do you explain the 50 v max working so much better if the 55s are not constructed diferently ?

Its not uniqe this 55s v max issue its all over the net.

top one of a long list.

http://www.shootforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=20382&mobile=desktop

. http://www.shootforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=20382&mobile=desktop

[Savhmr]

I've found that 60g Vmax will reliably expand from under 2000fps. I've used them out to 300 yds in 60g form, and whatever's been hit drops on the spot, every time bar a few fox that run on but they never run far and the insides are always mush. I load them to run at 3150 fps (approx) MV in 223 and the 60g are my V-max of choice (very accurate hard hitting vermin round with decent enough range). Hornady claim that they are designed for reliable expansion from as low as 1600 fps upwards and I believe that judging by the results I've had. Some absolute utter BS being spouted on this thread about Vmax. I've seen .308 used on fox which ran on a bit before dropping, with half their chest missing. Says more about the CNS of the quarry than it does about the effectiveness of the bullet. It's very simple. Shoot fox from any reasonable distance with 50g upwards (or 40gr at closer ranges and upwards) 222/223 Vmax and gun goes "bang" and fox falls over if hit in the right spot. Arguing about it all day on the interweb won't change that.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Savhmr

[wymberley]

Shoot fox from any reasonable distance with 50g upwards (or 40gr at closer ranges and upwards) 222/223 Vmax and gun goes "bang" and fox falls over if hit in the right spot. Arguing about it all day on the interweb won't change that.

Thank gawd for common sense - the way it was going it sounded like we'd all be obliged to carry out an autopsy on every dead fox. It's dead and that's all that matters. Hidden among the posts is one good option if you're not happy with V Max (although I can't think why not) and that's the SX. Obviously, the 22 Hornet is not the fastest round (2770 ft/sec in my rifle) and with the 50g version, I've never had one walk let alone run. I can't say what's happened inside though; it being dead suffices for me.

[kent]

I was thimking they must be very long shots - but you said 225 max

Then I though you had too light a load- but you said factory

So I figure the foxes were pumped up on full alert when you shot them - 40 yards is easy then without lungs!

[Paul223]

Hornady's reply to my question asking if the 55's are more suited to faster speeds over the 53 and 50

 

>>>Paul,

 

All these bullets have the same jacket!

They all expand to 1600fps and 4000fps. They expand well it a 222 Rem to a 220 Swift.

 

Thank you<<<<

 

So that clears that up!

 

Wymberley, I don't see what's wrong with my suggestion to open a fox that has run, no point in the OP doubting a part of his set up, 5 mins with a knife and he'd know the answer and I'd imagine confidence would be restored, nothing worse than having doubts.

[TONY R]

LIke i said they wont admit it will they, the fact is the 55s exit far too often yet the 50s work like they should.

[robbiep]

LIke i said they wont admit it will they, the fact is the 55s exit far too often yet the 50s work like they should.

 

There's nothing like a conspiracy theorist with no evidence to back him up.

 

Go back and read (properly) the OP's first posts.

 

He's using 55 grain bullets, getting no exit holes, occasionally the foxes are running 40 yards and then dropping dead.

He was expecting exit holes, and not getting any.

 

Yet you say that the 55s exit far too often. But for him, they don't.

 

 

Oops

[malkiserow]

Saaf Devon foxes is tough little beggars

[TONY R]

 

There's nothing like a conspiracy theorist with no evidence to back him up.

 

Go back and read (properly) the OP's first posts.

 

He's using 55 grain bullets, getting no exit holes, occasionally the foxes are running 40 yards and then dropping dead.

He was expecting exit holes, and not getting any.

 

Yet you say that the 55s exit far too often. But for him, they don't.

 

 

Oops

 

 

There's nothing like a conspiracy theorist with no evidence to back him up.

 

Go back and read (properly) the OP's first posts.

 

He's using 55 grain bullets, getting no exit holes, occasionally the foxes are running 40 yards and then dropping dead.

He was expecting exit holes, and not getting any.

 

Yet you say that the 55s exit far too often. But for him, they don't.

 

 

Oops

Your the conspiracy theorist here not me, hit a fox with a 50grain v max they enter expand and wreck the insides of the animal typicaly only small shards of copper and lead are ever found and the base is seldom more than copper little if any lead left on it, with the 55s and more importantly at typical .223 speeds, you get less of a wound chanel it penatrates deeper and there is less distructioin due to the narower cavity. if its a side on shot its rare to get an exit with 50s thats what i want, but with 55s they exit quite often. if you find a jacket its nearly always got a fair old lump of lead still attached to the base, and this is why most exit.

They dont work right and even if they dont exit they dont shock the internals quite like 50s.

But as reallity is not prevelent on here just carry on regardless, meanwile i will keep on shooting 50s or more explosive bullets and putting them down quicker without the 40 yard dashes thank you.

[Paul223]

 

Your the conspiracy theorist here not me, hit a fox with a 50grain v max they enter expand and wreck the insides of the animal typicaly only small shards of copper and lead are ever found and the base is seldom more than copper little if any lead left on it, with the 55s and more importantly at typical .223 speeds, you get less of a wound chanel it penatrates deeper and there is less distructioin due to the narower cavity. if its a side on shot its rare to get an exit with 50s thats what i want, but with 55s they exit quite often. if you find a jacket its nearly always got a fair old lump of lead still attached to the base, and this is why most exit.

They dont work right and even if they dont exit they dont shock the internals quite like 50s.

But as reallity is not prevelent on here just carry on regardless, meanwile i will keep on shooting 50s or more explosive bullets and putting them down quicker without the 40 yard dashes thank you.

Give it up, from the other topic you use a .22-250 and always have, at a guess your 250 won't throw 55's because 55 is probably to heavy for your twist, your personal experience of .223 and 55's is 0 and you just like to peddal what you shoot.

 

There's a few folk with a lot of experience who have, surprisingly, all made similar positive comments to one another, and all with experience of .223 and the 55 grain.

 

The bullet manufacturer has commented the the same jacket design is employed on all v max and that all v max are designed to expand between 1600 and 4000 feet per second.

 

Anyone reading your replays would be forgiven for thinking the .223 wasn't capable, reality is you just pedal bad advice!

[Bewsher500]

Bullets don't know what 22cf fired them

They just react to impact velocity.

 

There are so many variables involved in terminal ballistics...... Cartridge is not one of them other than the root cause of what velocity they are leaving the muzzle!

 

If they aren't working change them or switch your point of aim.

You say chest but not where.

A good shot high and forward will shock the CNS far to much to allow runners, even with soft points

[treetop]

I would chrono your load ....

From my own experience 150fps at the muzzle made a massive difference

I used to use varget, but after the 'shortage' I needed to work a new load with a new powder,

I found that 3050fps and 3200fps with the 53 gr vmax made a massive difference ,

Rabbits 'Pop' when hit, internal trauma on All quarry is greatly increased.

 

I used to shoot the 55gr vmax all the tine but changed to 53's when I changed powder..

 

Also, Imo, I don't get any runners if I place the shot well.

 

Just my 2p ...

 

Al.

[TONY R]

Give it up, from the other topic you use a .22-250 and always have, at a guess your 250 won't throw 55's because 55 is probably to heavy for your twist, your personal experience of .223 and 55's is 0 and you just like to peddal what you shoot.

 

There's a few folk with a lot of experience who have, surprisingly, all made similar positive comments to one another, and all with experience of .223 and the 55 grain.

 

The bullet manufacturer has commented the the same jacket design is employed on all v max and that all v max are designed to expand between 1600 and 4000 feet per second.

 

Anyone reading your replays would be forgiven for thinking the .223 wasn't capable, reality is you just pedal bad advice!

You get worse 55s to heavy for a 1 in 14 twist rate in a .22250, they will stabalise 70 grain speers at just over 3000 fps why wont they stabalise 55s? As for pedaling a given round its the bullet here in quesstion not what fired it.

55s too heavy and not stabalising in a .22250, you do not have a clue what you are talking about.

[TONY R]

I would chrono your load ....

From my own experience 150fps at the muzzle made a massive difference

I used to use varget, but after the 'shortage' I needed to work a new load with a new powder,

I found that 3050fps and 3200fps with the 53 gr vmax made a massive difference ,

Rabbits 'Pop' when hit, internal trauma on All quarry is greatly increased.

 

I used to shoot the 55gr vmax all the tine but changed to 53's when I changed powder..

 

Also, Imo, I don't get any runners if I place the shot well.

 

Just my 2p ...

 

Al.

It does and agree on the 53s

[Paul223]

You get worse 55s to heavy for a 1 in 14 twist rate in a .22250, they will stabalise 70 grain speers at just over 3000 fps why wont they stabalise 55s? As for pedaling a given round its the bullet here in quesstion not what fired it.

55s too heavy and not stabalising in a .22250, you do not have a clue what you are talking about.

Glad my comment gave a rise, hope this gives you some idea of how stupid your comments sounds regarding '.223 speeds' .....