oldypigeonpopper Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 hello, this was a recent purchase and seemed alright at the RFD trying with snap caps although the springs were stronger than i expected and he said normal for these victors, my old AYAs and other side by sides were never like this, anyway over a couple weeks it got worse only using 28g carts so i had a clean and grease done by a gunsmith who said same as the RFD, gunsmith said internals were good just stronger springs, yesterday had a job to open the breech but once done opened easy to re load, any thoughts PW members?, any victor owners? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 What springs are we talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 I would have thought the only time you should notice a difference is when only one barrel is fired. Only one set of springs come into play...ejector and cocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) over a couple weeks it got worse only using 28g carts The shot load ain't got anything to do with opening the gun. so i had a clean and grease done by a gunsmith who said same as the RFD, gunsmith said internals were good . If the ejector springs have been checked and they are working and aren't broken there is no problem. yesterday had a job to open the breech but once done opened easy to re load, When you fire the action the ejector springs have to be recocked on closing . This makes for a bit of resistance. when the springs are recocked the closing resistance is zero if you just open the breech and reclose it without firing off the action. If the fired case is ejected happily the ejector system is working OK. Failing that eat six Weetabix for breakfast and do a few press ups. PS dont use snap caps and dont dry fire the action on an empty chamber. unless you want an expensive repair bill. it causes a lot of stress in the parts and if you slacken the main springs you subsequently put load on the smaller ejector springs. I've owned a 6 EC since 1973 and never had a thing go wrong. Edited July 18, 2016 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 What springs are we talking about? hello, i presume the cocking springs if there called that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 I would have thought the only time you should notice a difference is when only one barrel is fired. Only one set of springs come into play...ejector and cocking. hello, that did happen, yet shot both barrels and still same on reloading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Without seeing the gun can you tell us by looking at two fired cartridges is there a nice round dent in the primer our can you see drag lines in the primer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 PS dont use snap caps and dont dry fire the action on an empty chamber. unless you want an expensive repair bill. it causes a lot of stress in the parts and if you slacken the main springs you subsequently put load on the smaller ejector springs. I've owned a 6 EC since 1973 and never had a thing go wrong. hello, was told this is 1975 made has churchill type rib and 26inch barrels but cannot see model number on gun. never dry fire/ snaps and gun stored normal pre loaded springs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Without seeing the gun can you tell us by looking at two fired cartridges is there a nice round dent in the primer our can you see drag lines in the primer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Without seeing the gun can you tell us by looking at two fired cartridges is there a nice round dent in the primer our can you see drag lines in the primer? hello, ok these are the gamebore kents on offer, no drag lines and perfect middle indent on primers both barrels, but indents are on the heavy side and quite deep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Ok here are some things you can look at, it sounds like the pins are sticking in the primers they might be thin or very soft primers you may possibly get different results with a different cartridge. Are the locks rebounding? One way to test this is fire the gun with snap caps in then take forend off then barrels, now can you push the pins back easily or is there strong resistance, if there is strong resistance and they are sticking out to far you need to have the pins shorted and highly polished. Do you have this problem when you use snap caps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Ok here are some things you can look at, it sounds like the pins are sticking in the primers they might be thin or very soft primers you may possibly get different results with a different cartridge. Are the locks rebounding? One way to test this is fire the gun with snap caps in then take forend off then barrels, now can you push the pins back easily or is there strong resistance, if there is strong resistance and they are sticking out to far you need to have the pins shorted and highly polished. Do you have this problem when you use snap caps? hello oldun, thanks for that, first time using these cheapy kents, no problem snap caps ejecting and only slight resistance closing action which was same as my old AYAs what pins are you talking on?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) hello oldun, thanks for that, first time using these cheapy kents, no problem snap caps ejecting and only slight resistance closing action which was same as my old AYAs what pins are you talking on?? Firing pins Did you try taking the forend and barrels off? Can you push the pins in easily? As a guide firing pins should stand proud of the breech face by 50-60 thou or around 1.5mm Edited July 18, 2016 by old'un Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Did you try taking the forend and barrels off? Can you push the pins in easily? As a guide firing pins should stand proud of the breech face by 50-60 thou or around 1.5mm hello, yes and yes, the pins are flush with breech and not as you describe eg protruding and looking with mag lens someone has taken out the pin caps before as the 2 holes are marked both sides. now i understand better as remember my previous s by s pins protruded as should, so looks like it needs sorting yet the gunsmith said ok !!!!! cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 it sounds like the pins are sticking in the primers they might be thin or very soft primers you may possibly get different results with a different cartridge. Are the locks rebounding? One way to test this is fire the gun with snap caps in then take forend off then barrels, now can you push the pins back easily or is there strong resistance, if there is strong resistance and they are sticking out to far you need to have the pins shorted and highly polished. >> The above is not correct. If you have deep rounded primer strike the firing pins are coming out far enough and are rebounding correctly so that they are flush with the face. Do you have this problem when you use snap caps? hello, yes and yes, the pins are flush with breech and not as you describe eg protruding and looking with mag lens someone has taken out the pin caps before as the 2 holes are marked both sides. now i understand better as remember my previous s by s pins protruded as should, so looks like it needs sorting yet the gunsmith said ok !!!!! cheers The disk strikers may not have been removed just because the lines don't match up. I don't think that the lines on mine line up and they have never been removed. If your gun is a 26" sidelock with a Churchill rib it is a 6EC. Parker Hale were the importers. We had a thread a few months ago about Sarasquettas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 t The disk strikers may not have been removed just because the lines don't match up. I don't think that the lines on mine line up and they have never been removed. If your gun is a 26" sidelock with a Churchill rib it is a 6EC. Parker Hale were the importers. We had a thread a few months ago about Sarasquettas hello, thanks for that info 6 EC, the disc striker holes are marked so i presume been removed to try and rectify problem, anyway on advice from david (oldun) i am going to try 2 more cartridge makes and see if same problem occurs, eley select and 28g imperials from ian coleys, cheers to all who replied my post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 I have had similar troubles (on two different guns, one s/s AyA Yeoman and one o/u Merkel). What happened (in both cases) is that the gun when fired still had pressure holding the firing pins into the impact points on the primers - whereas they should 'rebound' slightly. In my case, it was corrected by slight adjustment of the locks by a gunsmith (in fact on the o/u gun, one lock , lower barrel, only as would be expected from the opening movement of the action). Usually you see the tell tale 'drag marks' on the primers as has been described above - and the snap caps don't give a problem because they have a hard spring loaded 'primer'. A gunsmith need to ensure that the tumbler rebounds slightly allowing the firing pin to withdraw from the recess made in the primer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 None of the above-mentioned about firing pins and problems with the lock is applicable because the pins are doing their job and they are retracting to the face. When the gun is fired it does take a bit of effort to recock the system. this is quite normal and changing to another cartridge or brand ain't going to make any difference whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 hello, this was a recent purchase and seemed alright at the RFD trying with snap caps although the springs were stronger than i expected and he said normal for these victors, my old AYAs and other side by sides were never like this, anyway over a couple weeks it got worse only using 28g carts so i had a clean and grease done by a gunsmith who said same as the RFD, gunsmith said internals were good just stronger springs, yesterday had a job to open the breech but once done opened easy to re load, any thoughts PW members?, any victor owners? cheers hello, thanks to all who replied with advice on the above, oldun i tried different cartridges and still same problem? fortune do you think its the nature of the gun? is it worth getting a complete overhaul done.? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 I can't believe that we are at post #20 going round in circles. Go back to post #1 & #4. How many gunsmiths do you need to say that there is nothing wrong with the gun? Consider the weetabix and press ups option. The more people that you ask the more barmy opinions you will get. Only you know if you can work with the tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul taylor Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 I can't believe that we are at post #20 going round in circles. Go back to post #1 & #4. How many gunsmiths do you need to say that there is nothing wrong with the gun? Consider the weetabix and press ups option. The more people that you ask the more barmy opinions you will get. Only you know if you can work with the tool. This⬆️ Mate has one of these guns and it's a right stiff ****** to open/ close but nowt wrong with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 This⬆️ Mate has one of these guns and it's a right stiff ****** to open/ close but nowt wrong with it. thankyou paul, looks like i shall have to shoot with it as is, still it will keep up the arm muscles mods can you close this post now. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Dont shut the thread yet. I've had an idea. Tonight I'll drag mine out and measure how much effort it takes to shut the action by pressing it down on a pair of scales and comparing it to other guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Just out of interest - if it only happens with your 28g shells is it possible to try a different brand - my Silver Kestrel sometimes jams almost solid with one particular brand and often ,once open, cannot eject them - yet with another brand of shell she works perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Just out of interest - if it only happens with your 28g shells is it possible to try a different brand - my Silver Kestrel sometimes jams almost solid with one particular brand and often ,once open, cannot eject them - yet with another brand of shell she works perfectly. hello, i posted 2 different brands i did try but still same problem Dont shut the thread yet. I've had an idea. Tonight I'll drag mine out and measure how much effort it takes to shut the action by pressing it down on a pair of scales and comparing it to other guns. hello, that would be much appreciated. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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