new to the flock Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 No No No. A nice quiet tool for the poachers to use!!!! What difference does it make if it is legal or not if you are poaching? Martin, If you make it legal then shops will sell them, making them easier to get hold of so more people will have them and potentially use them for poaching. I would imagine very few people use crossbows or hunting bows for poaching at the moment, but add tens of thousand of bows to the population and see if that changes! If people will use licienced rifles and shotguns at present then nice quiet bows would soon rise up the favourites list if they became commonplace. I would imagine the chances of being caught when there's no bang will drop quite sharply. The poaching scum would use them when the cover is too high for their longdogs. Mark. Mark, I really cant agree with that argument, as you could very easily make a stick bow and arrows capable of harvesting rabbits, hares, pheasants and deer in under 2 hours. It only takes 30 pounds of draw weight to put an arrow through a whitetailed deer and there are many woods available to the cutting that are cabable of that. If someone is going to break the law in that manner than they are already breaking the law. Just my opinion. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlin1 Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I voted no Sorry but think time as moved on. Like everything else we have to move with the times. Sure a bow and arrow will kill a rabbit etc, but so will a catapult. Took many a rabbit, pigeon and even sparrows for the ferret's with my Milbro when I was a boy. We all spend hundred's if not thousands on shooting equipment to make sure we can kill what we hunt humanly and the furthest distance possible. Another 20 years time shooters will be complaining that they cant get 1" grouping with their Airguns at 200 yards, scopes with auto range finder. Forget lamp on your scope (Rifles), go for heat seeker.. see the ******* hiding in the grass. Shotguns will always be here because they do what they do and you cant improve on perfection..... Just my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I voted no. Everything i have read about bowhunting and its killing ability seems to point towards using broadhead arrows to make a large wound. The animal is generally not killed outright but bleeds to death. However you tout this, wounding and waiting for an animal to die is not most peoples objective when they hunt. Granted animals dont always die straight away when shot with a rifle, but that is the ideal. I read a few American bow hunting magazine years ago. There was a ******** in it on a crusade to stick arrows in anything he could around the planet. Cant remember reading of one clean kill. Animals were shot and bled to death. Saw a promotional video of someone shooting an elephant with a crossbow. A new "powerfull" type. It died........about 20 mins later. I found it truly upsetting, as was the indifferent comentary about the elephant suffering at the hands of their "wonderweapon" If people are alowed to take game with bows they will enevitably be grouped with us as "hunters". Quickest way i can think of to generate bad publicity and subsequant banning. Chunk, You are correct to a certain degree. When hunting large game broadheads are used and yes arrows kill by bleeding. However placed correctly I have seen animals die just as fast as when shot by a rifle. Small game....rabbits, hares, pheasant, squirrels etc..... on the other hand is shot are shot with shockers or what we call blunts. These are designed to kill through shock transfer and are not designed to enter the body. These typs are of heads are very effective on small game. ow fishing is another aspect that requires another specialty head so that the fish do not escape injured. Placed correctly it is possible to kill the fish immediately, otherwise it is retrieved to hand and dispatched. oh and sorry your right I do consider myself a hunter. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodmedod.one Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I voted No. There are plenty of people around who can cock-up taking live quarry with a decent rifle with a scope fitted. If they were proficient with their weapon they could dispatch their prey cleanly from a distance that doesn't even require much in the way of fieldcraft. I know that a bow is a deadly weapon in the right hands at the correct range. I also know that you see far more video clips of an animal running away after being struck with an arrow than you do of them dropping dead on the spot. The States is full of crazy rednecks who don't give a toss whether the animal suffers or not just so long as they have the bragging rights to say "I killed this with a bow". We don't need that **** over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Mark, I really cant agree with that argument, as you could very easily make a stick bow and arrows capable of harvesting rabbits, hares, pheasants and deer in under 2 hours. It only takes 30 pounds of draw weight to put an arrow through a whitetailed deer and there are many woods available to the cutting that are cabable of that. If someone is going to break the law in that manner than they are already breaking the law. Just my opinion. NTTF I always thought a lot of skill was required to make a bow? Anyway, these sorts of people are unliley to go to the "trouble" of making one but if they were avaliable to buy..... Also, the skill levels required for bow hunting (from what I have read) are really high, so we would need at the very least a DSC1 type course and FAC licencing. Although, I just don't like the idea of animals generally bleeding to death when I well placed rifle round will drop them instantly. Just seems a bit unecessary to me, use the best tool for the job. In the same way people don't hunt deer with a shotgun, it would do the job at close range but its not the best tool for it. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 >but if they were avaliable to buy..... They are available to buy at the moment, no license needed, the illegal part is the shooting of animals with a bow. However the poacher is already breaking the law so he would be using a bow now if he wanted to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 >but if they were avaliable to buy..... They are available to buy at the moment, no license needed, the illegal part is the shooting of animals with a bow. However the poacher is already breaking the law so he would be using a bow now if he wanted to! are the bows avaliable now hunting bows then? Can you also buy hunting arrows at the moment? I don't know just assumed it was not possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosspot Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Good post Mr Galway has prevoked some half decent reasoned debate an enjoyable read voted no on the basis that IMO they'd be abused but must say that after reading some of the empassioned replies my view has swayed a wee bit TP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I voted yes. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I voted No. The States is full of crazy rednecks who don't give a toss whether the animal suffers or not just so long as they have the bragging rights to say "I killed this with a bow". We don't need that **** over here. Hodmedod, Do you class the ones that go around shooting dogs and cats causing suffering with their air rifles as hunters? I am sure many of these run around bragging of their deeds. Not everyone that bow hunts is an irresponsible unfeeling redneck. Many of us put in hours of practice to the point that we are splitting shafts at our perfered range. Yes the USA and Canada have their fair share of *********, but I am sure if you look around you will find a good many in Great Britain aswell. NTTF Mark, I really cant agree with that argument, as you could very easily make a stick bow and arrows capable of harvesting rabbits, hares, pheasants and deer in under 2 hours. It only takes 30 pounds of draw weight to put an arrow through a whitetailed deer and there are many woods available to the cutting that are cabable of that. If someone is going to break the law in that manner than they are already breaking the law. Just my opinion. NTTF I always thought a lot of skill was required to make a bow? Anyway, these sorts of people are unliley to go to the "trouble" of making one but if they were avaliable to buy..... Also, the skill levels required for bow hunting (from what I have read) are really high, so we would need at the very least a DSC1 type course and FAC licencing. Although, I just don't like the idea of animals generally bleeding to death when I well placed rifle round will drop them instantly. Just seems a bit unecessary to me, use the best tool for the job. In the same way people don't hunt deer with a shotgun, it would do the job at close range but its not the best tool for it. Dan I am assuming that you mean dont hunt deer with a shot gun using pellets. Shotguns using slugs from rifled or smooth boared guns are extremely accurate, and with todays ammunition it is not uncommon to take animals at 75 to 100 yards. I will agree with you that pellets are not suitable....I hate buckshot and it is a major cause of wounding in the areas that it is used. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Pudding Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I voted YES 'cos i'm broad minded . The skill involved in bow hunting is massive . i'll highlight my point thus :- Anybody with enough money can buy a days stalking , where they will stalk a deer within 200 yrds look through a 8X42 scope and put a round into the engine box of the said deer . To my knowlage ( NTTF CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG ) the bow hunter has to stalk to within 40 yards to "crack" a bolt off . My mind says , more quarry will be taken with a rifle as it's "easyer" Twisted logic , maybe . all the best yis yp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddan28 Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I voted No. The States is full of crazy rednecks who don't give a toss whether the animal suffers or not just so long as they have the bragging rights to say "I killed this with a bow". We don't need that **** over here. Hodmedod, Do you class the ones that go around shooting dogs and cats causing suffering with their air rifles as hunters? I am sure many of these run around bragging of their deeds. Not everyone that bow hunts is an irresponsible unfeeling redneck. Many of us put in hours of practice to the point that we are splitting shafts at our perfered range. Yes the USA and Canada have their fair share of *********, but I am sure if you look around you will find a good many in Great Britain aswell. NTTF Mark, I really cant agree with that argument, as you could very easily make a stick bow and arrows capable of harvesting rabbits, hares, pheasants and deer in under 2 hours. It only takes 30 pounds of draw weight to put an arrow through a whitetailed deer and there are many woods available to the cutting that are cabable of that. If someone is going to break the law in that manner than they are already breaking the law. Just my opinion. NTTF I always thought a lot of skill was required to make a bow? Anyway, these sorts of people are unliley to go to the "trouble" of making one but if they were avaliable to buy..... Also, the skill levels required for bow hunting (from what I have read) are really high, so we would need at the very least a DSC1 type course and FAC licencing. Although, I just don't like the idea of animals generally bleeding to death when I well placed rifle round will drop them instantly. Just seems a bit unecessary to me, use the best tool for the job. In the same way people don't hunt deer with a shotgun, it would do the job at close range but its not the best tool for it. Dan I am assuming that you mean dont hunt deer with a shot gun using pellets. Shotguns using slugs from rifled or smooth boared guns are extremely accurate, and with todays ammunition it is not uncommon to take animals at 75 to 100 yards. I will agree with you that pellets are not suitable....I hate buckshot and it is a major cause of wounding in the areas that it is used. NTTF Yes nttf I was referring to pellets and not slugs, as you stated slugs are bloody lethal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodmedod.one Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I voted No. The States is full of crazy rednecks who don't give a toss whether the animal suffers or not just so long as they have the bragging rights to say "I killed this with a bow". We don't need that **** over here. Hodmedod, Do you class the ones that go around shooting dogs and cats causing suffering with their air rifles as hunters? I am sure many of these run around bragging of their deeds. Not everyone that bow hunts is an irresponsible unfeeling redneck. Many of us put in hours of practice to the point that we are splitting shafts at our perfered range. Yes the USA and Canada have their fair share of *********, but I am sure if you look around you will find a good many in Great Britain aswell. NTTF NTTF, I thought that this thread was about Bow Hunting...what have dogs, cats and air rifles got to do with it? As for your comment about GB *********, didn't I pretty much confirm that we have them by stating that there are people who can't dispatch an animal properly with a good rifle and scope, let alone a bow? Any half decent hunter with the correct calibre of rifle can do the business at long range. I am sure that living where you do, you know that even better than I do. I can't see the point of having to get within ******* distance of something to do a Robin Hood impersonation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I voted No. The States is full of crazy rednecks who don't give a toss whether the animal suffers or not just so long as they have the bragging rights to say "I killed this with a bow". We don't need that **** over here. Hodmedod, Do you class the ones that go around shooting dogs and cats causing suffering with their air rifles as hunters? I am sure many of these run around bragging of their deeds. Not everyone that bow hunts is an irresponsible unfeeling redneck. Many of us put in hours of practice to the point that we are splitting shafts at our perfered range. Yes the USA and Canada have their fair share of *********, but I am sure if you look around you will find a good many in Great Britain aswell. NTTF NTTF, I thought that this thread was about Bow Hunting...what have dogs, cats and air rifles got to do with it? As for your comment about GB *********, didn't I pretty much confirm that we have them by stating that there are people who can't dispatch an animal properly with a good rifle and scope, let alone a bow? Any half decent hunter with the correct calibre of rifle can do the business at long range. I am sure that living where you do, you know that even better than I do. I can't see the point of having to get within ******* distance of something to do a Robin Hood impersonation. Hodmedod, Maybe my post came across the wrong way. It was meant to show that you can not tar everyone with the same brush. Not meant as a personal accusation was just using your post to try to get a point across NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodmedod.one Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 No worries NTTF I hope that you have someone backing you up with a big bad-*** rifle when you go out with your bow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 That will be trix then LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiercel Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I voted yes. Because I am sick to the back teeth of people telling me that it will give the anti's more ammunition. I want the freedom to do as I see as humane and fit. No matter what method is used in hunting the anti's will always oppose it! Hunting with a bow is an art ..Yes, but it is not a stalking Art!! Most times it is a tracking art and you lay up in ambush for the animal. In most countries where bow hunting is allowed. To be allowed to shoot a bow at a living animal, you have to pass a strict proficiency test. AHHHH I hear you say what about the poachers and chancers that will then get a bow and go and shoot anything that moves at any distance….. Bows of the lethal kind are freely available to buy now! Try googling Longbow Field. Another thought is if these bows are being used now for illicit purposes? Then no one is any the wiser. That in it's self is a testament to the power of the bow silent and DEADLY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted May 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) . Edited September 2, 2009 by JohnGalway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ROBSON Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 >but if they were avaliable to buy..... They are available to buy at the moment, no license needed, the illegal part is the shooting of animals with a bow. However the poacher is already breaking the law so he would be using a bow now if he wanted to! Yes but there is a limited market for them as they can't be used for hunting. Allow them to be used for hunting and there distribution and sale would ten fold. Add to that market competition and the prices will fall too!! Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 >Yes but there is a limited market for them as they can't be used for hunting. Poachers don't and wouldn't care if they 'can be used for hunting' or not. They are available now to buy legally and I bet they are cheaper than an illegal gun which is presumably what poachers currently use. Making them legal would have little if no effect on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Mark, I really cant agree with that argument, as you could very easily make a stick bow and arrows capable of harvesting rabbits, hares, pheasants and deer in under 2 hours. It only takes 30 pounds of draw weight to put an arrow through a whitetailed deer and there are many woods available to the cutting that are cabable of that. If someone is going to break the law in that manner than they are already breaking the law. Just my opinion. NTTF I always thought a lot of skill was required to make a bow? Anyway, these sorts of people are unliley to go to the "trouble" of making one but if they were avaliable to buy..... Dan Dan, There is alot of skill goes into making a quality bow. You need to tiller both limbs to an even draw. and keep shape and form consistant. You then back the bow and finish it off. But to make a bow that you may need to drop in the bush if someone were looking for you, but that was capable of taking UK deer would take little time and effort. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonna Shoot a Wabbit Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I voted yes I think we should have the choice, let the individual judge the morality / humanity of the bows method of despatch versus modern firearm alternatives. Having tried shooting recurve bows at traditional targets at 20yds the level of skill required is substantial and requires much practice, at 40yds anyone who can hold a 2 inch group i would take my hat off too though i have seen it done by a very experienced bowman (not me i hasten to add). NTTF seems very clued up on this subject so using his quote of 30lb draw weight required to put a arrow through a white tailed deer did a little research on british archery stockists and found the following types and prices all capable of the required draw weight with some of the compound bows and crossbows generating 160lb all freely available if you are over 18 years of age. recurve bows £50 - £150 compound bows £150 - £500 crossbows £100 - £300 longbows £80 - £500 The bows are indeed already available if you have the brass. If poachers were inclined to use them wouldn't they already be? given the limited range and skill required to use a bow versus comparitive increase of range and ease of use of an off ticket firearm if you were a poacher then i think the off ticket firearm a more likely choice. excellent debate all, discussion is always good even when we disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I can't see the point of having to get within ******* distance of something to do a Robin Hood impersonation. That is the part that does appeal to me to be honest. Anybody can take a shot from 200yds but only a skilled hunter can get to within bow distance. I have the same opinion towards my hunting, I am not bothered with an FAC because I enjoy the challenge of getting in 12lb air gun ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I think its generally unlikely that bows would be used in crimes (except poaching), the bloods would get the bowstring caught in their bling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mexican bob Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Snakebite's comment rings the truest. If you don't put the sneak on 'em you ain't huntin'.... you're waitin'. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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