djgeoff Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 (edited) first of all sorry if in wrong section. i have a question to put to you knowledgeable lot, on behalf of a fellow shooter and myself i suppose as well. my mate has rang Basc this morning to get the legal and final answer as to whether shooting over stubble can get you into bother with the courts, because he has noticed a lot of his farmers no questioning if he should be shooting over stubble as there is not crop to protect. as we have said in the past you could be protecting the crop in the next field. the reply he got from Basc was very evasive they did not want to commit to any statements and rep said he would have to consult their legal department.. we will ring you back. my mate was thinking OK your shooting away over stubble (you done all the flag waving farmer tried 3 methods) someone comes along says you breaking general license, you end up in court in-front of judge that knows nothing about shooting you could end up loosing everything. he asked them for a black white legal statement on it, that could be printed in their mag so we all know where we stand... all Basc could say was ' it was a grey area we will get you back'. perhaps David from Basc may read this and give us the defined legal answer. i am sure some of you fellow shooters will be able to help out too. thanks in advance Edited August 7, 2017 by djgeoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 To end up in court you would need to be arrested and charged...I have never heard of a shooter arrested shooting pigeons on land with permission under the auspices of the General licence. If you and/or your farmers are not familiar with the wording of the General licence or indeed do not feel you are complying with it then that is a question for yourselves to consider. English law/constitution is based around precedent/previous legal cases. Natural England lay out the principles of the general licence to give guidance around 'pests' & 'non protected species'. You will not get a written black & white' rule book because there isn't one. Farmers plant crops,typically in rotation and for most of the year. Stubble shooting is an optimum/effective time to do your crop protection with minimal damage to the fields/crops. If you are not happy with that then don't shoot. Do pigeons eat crops? Yes. Do dead pigeons eat crops? No. This question arises frequently your 'best defence' if you feel you need one is to read the General Licence and assure yourself that you are complying to it as you interpret it.I know a good number of Lawyers/Barristers that shoot species under the general licence none to my knowledge would feel a prosecution would further their careers..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 I think Dougall has said all that needs to be said. Get on the stubbles and shoot some pigeons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 The way I see it . There are a few scaring methods of keeping birds off fields but these are always limited in their effectiveness .they will only work up to a point .and that point is bird / food source saturation . Ie when there are too many birds and not enough food ,the birds will hit the crop and no amount of scaring is going to stop em . This is where shooting comes in .It's a permanent solution for the individual bird .where scaring could be seen as promoting the birds to attack your neighbours crop instead of yours .shooting is benificial to all farmers . This permanent ness of killing birds is why i guess we have the general licence its a longer term solution rather than just pushing the problem away to someone else . And for shooting to be effective .it requires you to kill large numbers of birds . And stubble shooting at harvest is the best way to achive this . If your not killing birds then really your just scaring them away and there are better ways of doing that than with a gun . Your duty when decoying etc .is to effectively and permanently kill birds . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 I thought that I might be of help here, but no. Where's Charlie T when you need him? It seems to me that as I can't find what I was looking for, the wording of the licence might well have been changed. The law used to say something like,'.......... which have or will cause damage........' in other words it wasn't necessary that the damage was being done at the relevant time, but that the same species had and/or would do so. Good shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djgeoff Posted August 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 To end up in court you would need to be arrested and charged...I have never heard of a shooter arrested shooting pigeons on land with permission under the auspices of the General licence. If you and/or your farmers are not familiar with the wording of the General licence or indeed do not feel you are complying with it then that is a question for yourselves to consider. English law/constitution is based around precedent/previous legal cases. Natural England lay out the principles of the general licence to give guidance around 'pests' & 'non protected species'. You will not get a written black & white' rule book because there isn't one. Farmers plant crops,typically in rotation and for most of the year. Stubble shooting is an optimum/effective time to do your crop protection with minimal damage to the fields/crops. If you are not happy with that then don't shoot. Do pigeons eat crops? Yes. Do dead pigeons eat crops? No. This question arises frequently your 'best defence' if you feel you need one is to read the General Licence and assure yourself that you are complying to it as you interpret it.I know a good number of Lawyers/Barristers that shoot species under the general licence none to my knowledge would feel a prosecution would further their careers..... thanks for info i will print of as many of the comments as poss to pass on to mate as he is not pc savey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 I have shot pigeon on stubble for over 55 years, never heard of a procecution yet. Get on them and fill your boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 I have shot pigeon on stubble for over 55 years, never heard of a procecution yet. Get on them and fill your boots. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djgeoff Posted August 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 well thanks alot all, i have just had my mate on the blower to tell me basc did call him back and they said 'it is still a grey area, every December when they get together general license people this subject crops up(excuse the pun) and every year when basc ask them to define it exactly how shooters stand, it gets brushed aside nothing is put down in black and white' (so to speak). they also went on to say 'they have had cases where police have been called to shooters regarding shooting over stubble and the compliance with the general license, but no arrests have ever been made'. therefore it still stands in that grey area that Basc keep referring too we are none the wiser until a case goes to court, just hope your not on your own if it happens to you or i and you have the backing of Basc if your with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Shredder. Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 Wish there was some stubble to shoot over, been to wet to cut on my permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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