Investments.....on the rise finally????

[millrace]

Well now got a pleasant surprise put some money away prob 20 yrs ago now after going down to half value got my statement in and really cant believe it....in 16mths its up 27%......now its not a fortune not even a good car.....lol but made nice reading.....anyone else finding this and any idea how you know when its time to cash it in...

[JohnfromUK]

The time to cash it in is really .......... when you need it for something important. Well, that's my view anyway.

 

On a more serious note - be aware that capital gains (i.e. the level the 'sell' price is above the 'buy' price) are subject to capital gains tax (CGT) at your highest income tax rate. You are allowed an allowance of capital gains 'tax free' each year, and for 2017 this is £11,300. Gains above that realised in any tax year are charged at the highest level of income tax determined by your taxable income added to your capital gain.

 

If the investment was within PEP or ISA then it would be tax free. This is why it is important for investors to make full use of their annual ISA allowance (in 2017/8 you can invest 20,000 in ISA) ansd so build your savings in a tax free shelter, kindly provided by HMG to encourage savings.

 

If your investment is not in ISA and is likely to incur capital gains, it would probably benefit you to move it into ISA in annual lumps that would be under either your CGT allowance or the ISA limit in each tax year. That will leave it sheltered from tax in the future and would incur no tax now. If you are in this area, it would be wise to seek professional advice (I am not a professional, but have benefited from using professional advice).

Edited October 18, 2017 by JohnfromUK

[millrace]

No idea how this fits as it was pre isa times...like i said it isnt much and its always been treated as bail out funds if something goes wrong big style it may buy some time breathing space

[AVB]

It must be invested in something wacky if it is down 50% over 19?years yet up 27% in 16 months. What are the underlying assets?

[millrace]

No idea...if i rem it is a with profits bond...low risk fairly safe its with fidelity finds network......

[AVB]

No idea...if i rem it is a with profits bond...low risk fairly safe its with fidelity finds network......

No disrespect but a low risk investment doesnt lose 50%.

[evolution380]

I have a Lifetime Stocks and share ISA I'm investing in for when I'm older which goes towards my pension in about 35 years.

 

As long as I chuck 4K a year in I get 1k from the government so I'm going to do that for next 22 years hopefully however doubt the government will run the scheme that long. When I turn 60 I can withdraw the money as a lump sum without being taxed.

 

I'm actually now invested solely in a company called URU Metals there trading at 1.3p a share and my average is 1.2p, I have been using my account to day trade the stock for a while as it's been up and down 10% + on a daily basis which has helped grow my portfolio but I've sold everything else now and piled my eggs into this basket.

 

news is hopefully imminent it's a high risk/ high reward investment but I have faith. Potential land sale with proven nickel assets may go through in the near future which will lead to a dividend payout to shareholders as none of the board are taking a salary they will need the dividend payout.

 

The share has had hard times due to market makers manipulation and delayed RNS's so I'm hoping I'm in somewhere near the bottom, it's not worth day trading for me now incase I miss out!

 

Could make me very very happy or could do naff all for the foreseeable time will telll!

[JohnfromUK]

I hope it works for you; all eggs in one basket ......... isn't a strategy for the faint hearted is the most polite way I can think of saying it!

[Dellbert]

I have a Lifetime Stocks and share ISA I'm investing in for when I'm older which goes towards my pension in about 35 years.

 

As long as I chuck 4K a year in I get 1k from the government so I'm going to do that for next 22 years hopefully however doubt the government will run the scheme that long. When I turn 60 I can withdraw the money as a lump sum without being taxed.

 

I'm actually now invested solely in a company called URU Metals there trading at 1.3p a share and my average is 1.2p, I have been using my account to day trade the stock for a while as it's been up and down 10% + on a daily basis which has helped grow my portfolio but I've sold everything else now and piled my eggs into this basket.

 

news is hopefully imminent it's a high risk/ high reward investment but I have faith. Potential land sale with proven nickel assets may go through in the near future which will lead to a dividend payout to shareholders as none of the board are taking a salary they will need the dividend payout.

 

The share has had hard times due to market makers manipulation and delayed RNS's so I'm hoping I'm in somewhere near the bottom, it's not worth day trading for me now incase I miss out!

 

Could make me very very happy or could do naff all for the foreseeable time will telll!

Isa sounds interesting any more details please .

[evolution380]

Isa sounds interesting any more details please .

 

 

This is the LISA scheme I use however there are age restrictions to it.

 

http://www.hl.co.uk/investment-services/lifetime-isa

 

There is alternatively a stocks and shares ISA which has more flexibility and yearly you can chuck and invest 20k into it without getting capital gains tax etc. on any of your investments.

 

The broker you use have their own set charges which are usually minimal in the scheme of things. I use Hargreaves Lansdown for my stocks and shares isa as well as I'm used to their trading platform and they allow you to trade on the whole market practically whilst other ISA's limit what you can invest in.

 

EDIT - link takes to comparison... have a flick through the H&L one is there.

 

http://www.hl.co.uk/investment-services/isa

Edited October 19, 2017 by evolution380

[Smokersmith]

My pension fund choices have been flying recently .... long may it continue !!

[evolution380]

I hope it works for you; all eggs in one basket ......... isn't a strategy for the faint hearted is the most polite way I can think of saying it!

 

 

Definitely risky however as I didn't start out with a massive amount to invest when I first started trading I went risky on the AIM market, it's not as regulated as other markets so it can be volatile and does keep you on your toes as the market makers can be terrible with spread and manipulation of trades.

 

I'd never suggest anybody trades AIM, always safer alternatives and more stable markets however ANY investment can risk your capital so whatever is right for you.

 

I know it's risky but I have good fun in investing in exploration / mining companies etc.about as stupidly high risk as you can get unless you strike a commodity.

 

The investment that got me started was actually NCCL I bought for 3p a share they mainly appealed to me as I could hold more shares due to their low price, I sold out at 8p in 2016 after holding them for a year as I'd almost tripled my money. If i'd of held on a further 2 weeks i'd of made 10p a share however if i'd of held on for 2 months i'd of been back at my 3p buy in price and wasted a year of investments.

 

Stocks and shares in AIM make little sense sometimes however they can have very big days and very bad days I just try not to be greedy but also not be a coward and back out as a loss if i'm genuinely happy with a company i've researched. Market makers like to manipulate the share price for their own gain, initially it can take some getting used to but sometimes you can also join them. URU for instance has been +/- 10-15% every other day and I rode that wave for a few weeks to keep topping up my portfolio worth. As news should be imminent and I don't want to miss the dividend I've decided to stop playing at the MM's games hopefully it pays off.

Edited October 19, 2017 by evolution380

[JohnfromUK]

I'm sure you understand the downsides as well as upsides; I have done the same in the past and did well on the USM (unlisted securities market) which preceded AIM. There are also potentially tax advantages there as I'm sure you know with EI (Enterprise Initiative) and its predecessor the BES (Business Expansion Scheme). These only apply to UK companies I believe.

 

When I was earning (I am now retired) I used to take high risk investments, but as you say only for what I could afford to loose with a low percentage part of my investments. I won nicely on some, and lost my investment on others, but that is how it goes. Overall the 'risky play' fund did OK, but not spectacularly well when all was taken into account. I played safe and invested the main part savings in PEP then ISA in 'safe' companies, but still got badly burned on the RBS and Lloyds bank scandals (prior to that banks were regarded as safe 'blue chip' territory).

 

Now I am retired and depend on income from my portfolio, I take a much lower risk approach - with a basket of managed funds in ISA - but of course you do loose a management fee that way.

 

My only real piece of advice (based on 40 years experience) would be to take advantage of all the (obviously legal) tax breaks and shelters you can (like ISA) as being tax free can turn a mediocre investment into a good investment.

[evolution380]

I'm sure you understand the downsides as well as upsides; I have done the same in the past and did well on the USM (unlisted securities market) which preceded AIM. There are also potentially tax advantages there as I'm sure you know with EI (Enterprise Initiative) and its predecessor the BES (Business Expansion Scheme). These only apply to UK companies I believe.

 

When I was earning (I am now retired) I used to take high risk investments, but as you say only for what I could afford to loose with a low percentage part of my investments. I won nicely on some, and lost my investment on others, but that is how it goes. Overall the 'risky play' fund did OK, but not spectacularly well when all was taken into account. I played safe and invested the main part savings in PEP then ISA in 'safe' companies, but still got badly burned on the RBS and Lloyds bank scandals (prior to that banks were regarded as safe 'blue chip' territory).

 

Now I am retired and depend on income from my portfolio, I take a much lower risk approach - with a basket of managed funds in ISA - but of course you do loose a management fee that way.

 

My only real piece of advice (based on 40 years experience) would be to take advantage of all the (obviously legal) tax breaks and shelters you can (like ISA) as being tax free can turn a mediocre investment into a good investment.

 

 

40 Years of investing, I Imagine you have some brilliant and terrible stories to share! I've only been at it for 3-4 years so have a lot to learn!

 

Yes I'm taking the risks whilst young I mainly trade in my stocks and share ISA, take advantage of the tax benefits with that and have filtered the 4k into my LISA for this tax year as the government bonus is free money with the 1k incentive and a tax free pension pot for the future.

 

The LISA was only set up as a scheme this year so it's the first government bonus in April which goes to help offset against some losses (in my head anyway. If my current investment turns good i'll probably play it safer as it is to be a pension pot for the future, the Stocks and share ISA can be the riskier play moving forward.

 

I'll have to change investment tactics as time goes on as It sounds like you have over the years.

 

Good luck with all of your investments

[JohnfromUK]

 

 

 

I'll have to change investment tactics as time goes on as It sounds like you have over the years.

 

Good luck with all of your investments

I have managed to build up enough to retire on a bit early and live (adequately but modestly!) off the income ....... and being mainly in ISA, this is tax free. Have a long term 'goal' develop a 'strategy' (which you may need to be flexible about) and keep working towards your goal, taking opportunities as they arise and refining the strategy to take advantage of the ever changing pension and investment taxation schemes.

My 'goal' (set when I was in my 20s) was to be in a position to retire at 60 (which I managed) and my strategy was to invest partly in pensions (and get the tax relief 'on the way in') and partly in ISA (PEP initially) (where you get the tax relief 'on the way out'). The balance between the two has varied over the years to suit ISA and pension allowances etc.

 

Taking risks is possible early in your working life as you have a main income to rely on and time to recover any disasters. As you approach retirement, you are less inclined and less 'wise' to take risks because you are thinking that you need something safe from which to derive income.

[evolution380]

I have managed to build up enough to retire on a bit early and live (adequately but modestly!) off the income ....... and being mainly in ISA, this is tax free. Have a long term 'goal' develop a 'strategy' (which you may need to be flexible about) and keep working towards your goal, taking opportunities as they arise and refining the strategy to take advantage of the ever changing pension and investment taxation schemes.

My 'goal' (set when I was in my 20s) was to be in a position to retire at 60 (which I managed) and my strategy was to invest partly in pensions (and get the tax relief 'on the way in') and partly in ISA (PEP initially) (where you get the tax relief 'on the way out'). The balance between the two has varied over the years to suit ISA and pension allowances etc.

 

Taking risks is possible early in your working life as you have a main income to rely on and time to recover any disasters. As you approach retirement, you are less inclined and less 'wise' to take risks because you are thinking that you need something safe from which to derive income.

 

 

Great post and advice, definitely something for me and I'm sure many others to consider more. My dad drilled it into me to pay as much into my pension as I could afford, at the age of 16 i scoffed but by 18 i decided it was a good idea so have at least paid a decent percentage into it for 10 years now with my employer matching my percentage i may as well take advantage of that and the tax benefits. Same with bonus's I used to squander them and get hit by the Tax, stopped making that mistake now.

 

Definitely will have to change investments or maybe even use the LISA as a cash pot generating interest rather than playing the stocks and shares once it's built up a decent size and I move closer to retirement.

 

For now my LISA is in it's infancy as the scheme has only been set up this year so i've put the money in to get the government bonus in April and happy to take the risk factor. I can lose £1k theoretically and not be out of pocket which is why i'm more happy to go high risk for now within that moreso than i'm willing to go with my stocks and share ISA to help try and get the pension fund going.

 

I do need to look into other investment options over the next few years, I've never invested in anything other than stocks and shares and previously (gambled not invested) in CFD's which I learned some big lessons from and now avoid.

Edited October 19, 2017 by evolution380

[Lloyd90]

What platforms are you using?

 

I've got my ISA with AJBell and using it to buy up REIT's.

 

It's not bad and so far, the ones I picked are up and down but seem to have gone up by 4% over the last 3 months. They were upto 6% but went back down recently.

 

The worst thing I found though is you have to pay a fee to buy equities (£10 I recall) so takes a while for your investment rising to cover the fee.

[JohnfromUK]

I think you are on the right tracks:

• Maximise your tax reliefs (ISA, pension reliefs etc.)
• take advantage of employers pension contributions, share options and other incentives that may be offered

When you get to retirement, there will be a range of pension related options available - Traditionally a pension was usually either:

• defined benefit (e.g. final salary or state, or ex armed services types) where you receive £xxx per year for life or
• defined contribution where you will have a fund built up (often tax free) from contributions you have made and have to use that to fund your retirement. Traditionally an annuity was the way forward here, but low annuity rates in recent times and changed tax/pension rules for draw down may make it better to 'draw down' - probably in stages annually to make use of annual tax allowances, but this would depend on so many individual things, plus government rules that it would have to be decided at the time.

As I'm sure you are aware - an annuity provides income for life, but when you die, the capital is 'lost'. With draw down you retain the remaining balance of capital and it can potentially be transferred to your family after your death. There are a load of tax implications here, but for example in some instances may have inheritance tax implications. Again, it needs to be looked at as part of a whole raft of decisions that need to be made about retirement which are complicated, depend both on individual circumstances and (ever changing) legislation.

 

As a saver, remember that the Chancellor will always be eyeing up the savings of those who have bothered to save in order to 'buy' votes from those who haven't ......... and that governments (especially socialist ones) don't like people having financial independence - because it means that they have less control over you ........ and how you use your savings.

[RockySpears]

If you had £10,000 in 1997 and bough Gold - 50oz

 

and you now sold your Gold, you would have £48,750.

 

Your £10,000 from 1997, now has a purchasing power of £6,600 due to inflation.

 

Take the current figure you have for your investment and multiple by 0.66, that is the 1997 worth of you investment.

 

How has you money done in your chosen investment?

 

 

 

If you want to know the future of stocks, here is a simple analysis* of McDonalds over the last 5 years:

 

Stock price UP 73%, Revenue down 12%, Net income down 5.5%, Company assets down by $17 billion to -£2 billion

 

 

There are no markets these days. NIRP and ZIRP mean that companies are borrowing huge sums against assets, buying their own shares and calling it growth. No investment, no productivity gains, nothing.

 

Would you buy shares in a company that is is losing money hand over fist?

 

This is not just a McDonalds thing, this is a whole Stock "Market" thing (Tesla loses $13 million per day, sounds like a great investment, Yes?).

 

There is no "Value" in these companies, just a share price. QE and Mario Draghis' "Whatever it takes" has destroyed all semblance of markets.

 

You can play in their Casino/Ponzi scheme, but you will get stiffed.

 

RS

 

* http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-18/something-wicked-way-comes-mcdonalds-%E2%80%93-bear-bull-costume

 

 

Oh, and there are NO Tax implications with Gold, it is legal tender and not subject to such (sovereigns).

Edited October 19, 2017 by RockySpears

[evolution380]

What platforms are you using?

 

I've got my ISA with AJBell and using it to buy up REIT's.

 

It's not bad and so far, the ones I picked are up and down but seem to have gone up by 4% over the last 3 months. They were upto 6% but went back down recently.

 

The worst thing I found though is you have to pay a fee to buy equities (£10 I recall) so takes a while for your investment rising to cover the fee.

 

H&L are £11.95 a trade (on shares) but if you frequently trade which I do it drops to £8.95 I think, I don't mind these too much as AIM is quite volatile usually up or down a few hundred quid a day which makes the £11.95 not too bad.

 

I think you are on the right tracks:

• Maximise your tax reliefs (ISA, pension reliefs etc.)
• take advantage of employers pension contributions, share options and other incentives that may be offered

When you get to retirement, there will be a range of pension related options available - Traditionally a pension was usually either:

• defined benefit (e.g. final salary or state, or ex armed services types) where you receive £xxx per year for life or
• defined contribution where you will have a fund built up (often tax free) from contributions you have made and have to use that to fund your retirement. Traditionally an annuity was the way forward here, but low annuity rates in recent times and changed tax/pension rules for draw down may make it better to 'draw down' - probably in stages annually to make use of annual tax allowances, but this would depend on so many individual things, plus government rules that it would have to be decided at the time.

As I'm sure you are aware - an annuity provides income for life, but when you die, the capital is 'lost'. With draw down you retain the remaining balance of capital and it can potentially be transferred to your family after your death. There are a load of tax implications here, but for example in some instances may have inheritance tax implications. Again, it needs to be looked at as part of a whole raft of decisions that need to be made about retirement which are complicated, depend both on individual circumstances and (ever changing) legislation.

 

As a saver, remember that the Chancellor will always be eyeing up the savings of those who have bothered to save in order to 'buy' votes from those who haven't ......... and that governments (especially socialist ones) don't like people having financial independence - because it means that they have less control over you ........ and how you use your savings.

 

 

Thanks for that John, something i need to look into more.

 

Got a while to decide however I've always favoured the idea of drawing down what and when i can upon retirement whilst avoiding fees to have the money in my pocket rather than someone elses pot.

 

Thats why I like about the LISA for a back up pot of money. Chuck 4k a year in plus 1k from government over 22 years until i'm 50 and theres £115k plus interest or minus losses sat in a pot that can be drawn out on my 60th birthday tax free and without charges. It gives me the flexibility to retire earlier.

 

My work pension I can then draw down from I'm hoping in suitable instalments alongside the pot of money above.

 

I'm most bothered about my partner / kids (when i have children) than myself if i'm honest. Would never settle in my grave leaving capital to the government having paid into the pot all my working life when it could have been sat in an account for my family.

Edited October 19, 2017 by evolution380

[AVB]

If you had £10,000 in 1997 and bough Gold - 50oz

 

and you now sold your Gold, you would have £48,750.

 

Your £10,000 from 1997, now has a purchasing power of £6,600 due to inflation.

 

Take the current figure you have for your investment and multiple by 0.66, that is the 1997 worth of you investment.

 

How has you money done in your chosen investment?

 

 

 

If you want to know the future of stocks, here is a simple analysis* of McDonalds over the last 5 years:

 

Stock price UP 73%, Revenue down 12%, Net income down 5.5%, Company assets down by $17 billion to -£2 billion

 

 

There are no markets these days. NIRP and ZIRP mean that companies are borrowing huge sums against assets, buying their own shares and calling it growth. No investment, no productivity gains, nothing.

 

Would you buy shares in a company that is is losing money hand over fist?

 

This is not just a McDonalds thing, this is a whole Stock "Market" thing (Tesla loses $13 million per day, sounds like a great investment, Yes?).

 

There is no "Value" in these companies, just a share price. QE and Mario Draghis' "Whatever it takes" has destroyed all semblance of markets.

 

You can play in their Casino/Ponzi scheme, but you will get stiffed.

 

RS

 

* http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-18/something-wicked-way-comes-mcdonalds-%E2%80%93-bear-bull-costume

 

 

Oh, and there are NO Tax implications with Gold, it is legal tender and not subject to such (sovereigns).

So what are you punting? Gold? Anything else?

[Whatmuff]

If you had £10,000 in 1997 and bough Gold - 50oz

 

and you now sold your Gold, you would have £48,750.

 

Your £10,000 from 1997, now has a purchasing power of £6,600 due to inflation.

 

Take the current figure you have for your investment and multiple by 0.66, that is the 1997 worth of you investment.

 

How has you money done in your chosen investment?

 

 

 

If you want to know the future of stocks, here is a simple analysis* of McDonalds over the last 5 years:

 

Stock price UP 73%, Revenue down 12%, Net income down 5.5%, Company assets down by $17 billion to -£2 billion

 

 

There are no markets these days. NIRP and ZIRP mean that companies are borrowing huge sums against assets, buying their own shares and calling it growth. No investment, no productivity gains, nothing.

 

Would you buy shares in a company that is is losing money hand over fist?

 

This is not just a McDonalds thing, this is a whole Stock "Market" thing (Tesla loses $13 million per day, sounds like a great investment, Yes?).

 

There is no "Value" in these companies, just a share price. QE and Mario Draghis' "Whatever it takes" has destroyed all semblance of markets.

 

You can play in their Casino/Ponzi scheme, but you will get stiffed.

 

RS

 

* http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-18/something-wicked-way-comes-mcdonalds-%E2%80%93-bear-bull-costume

 

 

Oh, and there are NO Tax implications with Gold, it is legal tender and not subject to such (sovereigns).

Bang on mate. I think the stock market is in a huge bubble at the moment and we are in for one hell of a crash. It's being propped up by false money as is the housing market. I wouldn't want my savings anywhere near this or Bitcoin for that matter. I'm on gold and silver all the way!

[RockySpears]

AVB

Gold and hard assets, property mostly. I paid into a pension for 10 years+, the Gov. added in my tax relief and after 10 years I had less than the total I contributed. Not with any old pensions schemes either, Scottish Widows and Pearl.

I have now converted all that to an SIPP in Gold bullion with Bullion Vault.

I took my contribution and got a mortgage on a 2 up 2 down terrace, etc. Now have 6 properties and will not bother with more as it is plenty, not interested in being a landlord, just solvent. Don't "flip" houses either, not interested in the buy/sell forever malarkey.

 

All my Spare cash is used to buy Spot-price Sovereigns, 1/2s or whatever I have spare. Being legal tender there is no Capital gains on my collection.

 

I have to say I am surprised people here actually play the "Markets", but I guess BTFD is not a hard trade. Nobody is interested in Fundamentals anymore, Draghi has their backs as far as they are concerned.

 

Just take a look at the valuations of these companies, they far out-way any increase in profits/productivity. The Maccy D example is pretty much the same for them all. Most of the big companies today are actually just shells for Government handouts. Netflix a company that is burning through cash at an unheard of rate, but somehow it still has "value", well, not in my opinion.

 

Look at this:

 

 

How the hell is this possible, a company with a revenue of less than 5% of its rivals has a greater or equivalent "market" capitalisation.

 

Please, any one, tell me where these investors see their returns coming from?

 

Netflix - a cash burn of $2.5 billion for 2017, with no end in sight, a good investment? Really?

 

Actually, looks good, doesn't it?:

 

http://performance.morningstar.com/stock/performance-return.action?t=NFLX&region=usa&culture=en-US

 

Hell yeah!.

 

RS

Edited October 19, 2017 by RockySpears

[AVB]

The problem I have with a physical commodity such as gold is that it doesnt return you anything while sitting in a vault. Other assets do.

 

My balanced portfolio returns me about 3.5% pa yield and over the past 5 years has grown about 10% pa. so fairly conservative but consistent.

 

It is hedged across currencies and regions and is about 60% bonds, 30% equities, 10% cash.

 

I am a firm believer in balanced investments.

 

Out of interest why did you let your pension lose you money? Assuming it was a DC scheme surely you had options as to where it was invested .

[evolution380]

Netflix is investing more and more money into their Original content which is good stuff to watch but it I can't believe anybody would buy a share that is trading at something in the region of 200 x earnings. There only going to keep chucking money in the fire to as Amazon are investing more in original content and Disney will have their own streaming service soon to add to the list of rivals Netflix need to keep ahead of.

 

Disney own ESPN now also so they have the sport streaming market to hand as well as their endless catalogue of movies.

 

GOPRO for instance everybody went crazy for when there IPO's hit the market they were at 24dollars a share they jumped up to 35 dollars a share almost immediately and peaked at around 100 dollars a share...

 

Now trading at 9 dollars a share.... (some people certainly got shafted there.

 

IBM has had declined revenue for 22 consecutive quarters in a row, this quarter down yet again but their Share price is up circa 10% today alone on a company with a market cap of around 150 billion HMMMMM

Edited October 19, 2017 by evolution380