silioquy, TO run in OR NOT TO run in

[Richie10]

On ‎15‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 21:50, 6.5x55SE said:

When Whitefront's was a regular feature in the bag i took a Driven game shot with his very well trained dog to a secluded water splash hoping to get him his first Whitefront.

At last knockings seven dark shapes appear 2 shots from the guest nothing my first connected. My lab ignored the dead Goose disappeared for what seem a age only to return with another Whitefront whilst my guest worked his to pick my first Goose my lab disappeared again.

We had made it back to the seawall whilst my ears got beat with I'd never own a Dog like yours etc my answer was he stops when i shot he goes when he knows best his eyes and ears are far better than mine he is a proper Fowler's dog his attitude changed when i said i take you don't want you're first Whitefront  

Apologies for a long winded reply for a coastal Wildfowling dog i want a controllable dog with its own mind that i use it's ears and eye's to help bag a bird or 2

My dog will run in, he will stand and watch a bird, if it comes down further, he will go after it, like some steel shot birds do. If I shoot 2 birds he will go for the further one.  He will catch divers by treading water and waiting for them to surface again. If I shoot a bird in the dark while I am in a creek he will pick it while I am clueless to where it fell. He tracks runners across mud and creeks for quite a distance and pick birds I think I have missed. He will sit in the hide all day and then run around the marsh like a nutcase when we finish. He is not great for shooting with other dogs but won't fight over a retrieve.

Other people would think he is a pain and badly trained(which he is), but I wouldn't have retrieved or found half the birds without him, he knows his job and relying on me to point him in the right direction all the time would be no help to me.

[ips]

a friend at my syndicate once said "one bad dog (as in not that well trained) is better than ten good ones" !!!!

not sure I agree but there you go ?

[marsh man]

5 hours ago, Richie10 said:

My dog will run in, he will stand and watch a bird, if it comes down further, he will go after it, like some steel shot birds do. If I shoot 2 birds he will go for the further one.  He will catch divers by treading water and waiting for them to surface again. If I shoot a bird in the dark while I am in a creek he will pick it while I am clueless to where it fell. He tracks runners across mud and creeks for quite a distance and pick birds I think I have missed. He will sit in the hide all day and then run around the marsh like a nutcase when we finish. He is not great for shooting with other dogs but won't fight over a retrieve.

Other people would think he is a pain and badly trained(which he is), but I wouldn't have retrieved or found half the birds without him, he knows his job and relying on me to point him in the right direction all the time would be no help to me.

Richie !0..... Your dog sound like the bulk of wildfowlers who I now , most of them are getting long in the tooth now and no way would they tolerate a dog running wild, out of control and disobedient , like you say , on countless occasions I have took a duck out in the poor light with the first shot and then another with the second shot , I didn't know where the first one fell but I did watch where the second one hit the marsh , I knew the dog had already gone after the first one and once he was back I could then put him in the direction of the other one .

All my previous six dogs have been the same when it comes to retrieving fowl , they sit there on the mud or in the water and I swear blind they enjoy retrieving more than I do doing the shooting and once they see a bird hit there intention is to bring it back to hand , this might be poor training in other forms of shooting , which I thoroughly agree in training a dog to stop it running in , but with my type of wildfowling I am happy with the dog doing it his way and when he is nudging me with a duck or goose in his mouth we can both share in each others success .

[anser2]

I am with Boyed and marshman with this. Most of my dogs have run in to a downed duck and doubtless many a retrieve over strong tides and in darkness would have been lost if they had not done this. On the other hand there times when I do not want incoming birds scared off by a retrieving dog. When shooting in company or in broad daylight I have the dog anchored to my wading stick. The once the dog has the lead around its neck she does not attempt to run in. She can be released when the air is empty of incoming birds, But when the tide is pushing up and darkness setting in then she is free to go for the bird as if falls. I used to have a golden retriever who would talour her retrieving according to the work she was doing. A first bounce dog when fowling in the dark, but she would sit and not move a muscle when sit on a peg on a driven day or in a pigeon hide.

Edited November 17, 2017 by anser2

[motty]

I will reiterate, it only takes a second to send a dog.

[ips]

18 minutes ago, motty said:

I will reiterate, it only takes a second to send a dog.

this

[Gerry78]

Agree with motty a dog running in cant be a good thing.During  a flight if your dog runs in say after you shoot the first duck any other duck commiting to the decoys will flair off if they see a dog swimming My dog hes first couple of outings sitting in the hide tried to run in after id shot a mallards what i done was peg him he then he learned when i made him sit and stay to wait He now waits on my command as motty says it only takes a split second to let the dog go after the ducks The only time i have seen ducks getting washed away is when other guns take out of range shots and wound the birds

[lancer425]

23 hours ago, anser2 said:

I am with Boyed and marshman with this. Most of my dogs have run in to a downed duck and doubtless many a retrieve over strong tides and in darkness would have been lost if they had not done this. On the other hand there times when I do not want incoming birds scared off by a retrieving dog. When shooting in company or in broad daylight I have the dog anchored to my wading stick. The once the dog has the lead around its neck she does not attempt to run in. She can be released when the air is empty of incoming birds, But when the tide is pushing up and darkness setting in then she is free to go for the bird as if falls. I used to have a golden retriever who would talour her retrieving according to the work she was doing. A first bounce dog when fowling in the dark, but she would sit and not move a muscle when sit on a peg on a driven day or in a pigeon hide.

Anser Goldens are a beautiful dog and work well if from a decent line had one in the early 1980s great dog he was.

[anser2]

Hi Lancer. Given the choice I would have a golden retriever now, but its almost impossible to get one with working blood under £1000. My golden was a bitch and had a mix of working and show lines, 7 working champions and 6 show champions including her gran father who was best in breed in crufts. I am not sure that that goldens are any better or worse than labs , but when they work they do it in style with their bounding run and flowing hair. 

[marsh man]

32 minutes ago, Gerry78 said:

Agree with motty a dog running in cant be a good thing.During  a flight if your dog runs in say after you shoot the first duck any other duck commiting to the decoys will flair off if they see a dog swimming My dog hes first couple of outings sitting in the hide tried to run in after id shot a mallards what i done was peg him he then he learned when i made him sit and stay to wait He now waits on my command as motty says it only takes a split second to let the dog go after the ducks The only time i have seen ducks getting washed away is when other guns take out of range shots and wound the birds

I am not talking about shooting duck over decoys  , I don't let my dog run in when I am decoying pigeons and if I was decoying duck he would stay put , I am well aware it only take a second to command your dog to get on , and I am also aware it only take a second for a duck or goose to get into water after hitting the deck only yards from the edge of the dyke , drains or the river .

If I had thought my dogs over the last 50 years would have retrieved more fowl if they waited till I gave them the command then by now I would have done it years ago , but if I weighed up the pros and cons , I dare say by having that one second start in bad light they have brought back a lot more than if they had waited a second for the go ahead .  

[lancer425]

5 minutes ago, anser2 said:

Hi Lancer. Given the choice I would have a golden retriever now, but its almost impossible to get one with working blood under £1000. My golden was a bitch and had a mix of working and show lines, 7 working champions and 6 show champions including her gran father who was best in breed in crufts. I am not sure that that goldens are any better or worse than labs , but when they work they do it in style with their bounding run and flowing hair. 

This is why i Use Labs now where i used the golden, i paid £ 80 for my golden as a 8 week old pup in january 1980 a long time ago now. He was my Birthday present from my dad happy days.