Interesting 22 subs findings.

[turbo33]

I popped a post on here a couple of weeks ago about a duff batch of Eley subs. It was disappointing as ordinarily, the CZ452 with Eleys is blisteringly accurate. Sub MOA. It used to wipe the eye of the HMR. Well boredom and curiosity got the better of me yesterday. Now I know this isn't the most scientific and necessarily accurate analysis, but it is quite interesting.

So, out with the Lyman Gen 6 scales, which are superbly accurate. I had 3 different batches of Eley subs. batch 1, two full boxes (100) date of manufacture 2013, batch 2, two full boxes (100) date of manufacture 2016, batch 3 (duff) 80 rounds date of manufacture 2016. All weighed as an unfired round.

Batch 1 ranging from 51.4grns to 52.3grns    .9grn spread with the majority at 51.8

batch 2, ranging from 48.9grns to 49.6grns   0.7grn spread with majority at 49.1

batch 3, ranging from  46.2grns to 47.9     1.7grn spread no clear majority.

 

I wasn't in a position to chrono them, which would have been further interesting info, but with batch three some of them barely made it out of the barrel!  Now I know there will be a variance from round to round with the bullet weight and the case. The rest is down to the powder/primer charge. I will pull some bullets and weigh some cases at some point, just out of curiosity. But it would be interesting to see, what improvement in accuracy can be obtained by whizzing some over the scales into group lots. At the very least, in future, I shall be checking the boxes are all from the same batch number, and not just buying a few boxes. I have questioned if I need to see someone about this pedantic nature!! But in all seriousness, the 22lr with subs is a fantastic tool, and I'm convinced there is so much more to be had from it, for such little effort. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Yes interesting to fire batched rounds and see if they group accordingly.

[Wb123]

I was of the (possibly erroneous) understanding that their expensive competition ammunition is exactly that. Batches by time of manufacture and unfired weight. 

 

When I eventually empty the safe of .22lr it would be interesting to buy a large batch and see. 

[figgy]

Pull a few heads from each batch and compare powder weights and see if it looks the same. Something is off either powder type or charge. 

[Walker570]

I assume you are sensible enough not to have mixed them at some point. Had a friend who did that and consequently it was a story of hit or miss all night on a rabbit lamping night until I questioned why he had the shells in a small leather pouch. "OH, I just tipped them all in there, it's easier to reload" ... about five boxes of ammo wasted.

I think figgy might have a point as I had some of those Magtech shells about 25yrs ago and they printed fine but very now an again you would get a flyer  but realised why as the 'crack' was far, far sharper.  Obviously 1 in maybe 25-30 was overloaded.  Used Winchester ever since.

I do agree with you, the sub sonic 22RF has a place in the field where you need to be very quiet.

[turbo33]

3 hours ago, figgy said:

Pull a few heads from each batch and compare powder weights and see if it looks the same. Something is off either powder type or charge. 

Batch three is all over the place, and I will pull some bullets as I mentioned. They are unusable anyhow, and i would guess there was a problem with the powder drop at the factory.

[turbo33]

3 hours ago, Walker570 said:

I assume you are sensible enough not to have mixed them at some point. Had a friend who did that and consequently it was a story of hit or miss all night on a rabbit lamping night until I questioned why he had the shells in a small leather pouch. "OH, I just tipped them all in there, it's easier to reload" ... about five boxes of ammo wasted.

I think figgy might have a point as I had some of those Magtech shells about 25yrs ago and they printed fine but very now an again you would get a flyer  but realised why as the 'crack' was far, far sharper.  Obviously 1 in maybe 25-30 was overloaded.  Used Winchester ever since.

I do agree with you, the sub sonic 22RF has a place in the field where you need to be very quiet.

You are correct, I have not mixed them. But I would hesitate to say, there are a lot out there who would, like your friend, just empty another box into their pocket or fill a mag up from a new box/batch, reasonably assuming that the next box of the same make will be the same. And thats my point. The powder charge will be so minuscule, that there will un doubtably be a variation in a box anyway, and also from batch to batch. Therefore, weighing them out into reasonable group weights and zeroing with each group, although some would find tedious, it will weed out flyers ( wounding) and also I'm pretty sure, will give outstanding accuracy returns for those that are interested in such. 

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if some of the issues people have had with HMR ammo are along similar lines. I reload for 223, and the accuracy of home loaded ammunition is why we do it.

Edited January 2, 2018 by turbo33

[Walker570]

100%

[figgy]

Pull thd heads off the ones out of your spec and reload them. 

[turbo33]

Assuming I could use the original powder and fiddle with relocating the heads in un tensioned necks, ( which would defeat the object off consistency )I think thats even a bridge too far for me! Its 80 odd rounds Figgy, they are just scientific fodder, bullet weight and case weight variation.

 

[onslow52]

Dont forget to batch by rim thickness also if you want to be really fussy ??

[turbo33]

12 hours ago, onslow52 said:

Dont forget to batch by rim thickness also if you want to be really fussy ??

No ones mentioned COL, 

[Old farrier]

Hi 

very interesting thanks for taking the time to do the research 

have a club member a very good shot visited the factory (eley if I recall correctly) he said the code number on the boxes has the number of the manufacturer machine on it and will only use ammunition made on one machine now 

not sure if all factory’s are the same process 

thanks again 

all the best 

of 

[onslow52]

1 hour ago, Old farrier said:

Hi 

very interesting thanks for taking the time to do the research 

have a club member a very good shot visited the factory (eley if I recall correctly) he said the code number on the boxes has the number of the manufacturer machine on it and will only use ammunition made on one machine now 

not sure if all factory’s are the same process 

thanks again 

all the best 

of 

Im sure that in the past i used to order off machine 4 at eley with a velocity bracket of 1050 tp 1080.

[Old farrier]

25 minutes ago, onslow52 said:

Im sure that in the past i used to order off machine 4 at eley with a velocity bracket of 1050 tp 1080.

You are probably right there’s plenty of variation between batches 

although for a cheap caliber ammo it’s all pretty good 

[Rimfireboy]

I’ve recently used rws rifle match, a little bit more expensive than the hp subs, but a noticeable difference in accuracy beyond 60 yards. Not hollow points, but head shot rabbits don’t know the difference. Still very quiet to shoot as well.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Rimfireboy