jg1 Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Hello, I am relatively new to the shotgun community, but I have an important question about the first gun that I bought. The Parkemy 410 3" double barrel poacher's shotgun was the gun in question, and when I bought it the dealer said that although it had 3" chambers I can only shoot 2" 1/2 cartridges through it. I couldn't really get a straight answer as to why that was, only that it wasn't proofed for 3" cartridges. The gun has the spanish APM proof mark on it, but could it be that this gun was proofed for black powder cartridges rather that the modern nitro celulose equivalents, or could it be that the gun is fairly old so it's standard practice to shoot lighter loads through it? If anyone has any knowlegde in this field and can shed some light on it that would be very helpful. Regards Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 If it has no BNP stamp on it then it can only be assumed it hasn’t been through any British proof house in recent times. This in itself doesn’t necessarily mean it’s black powder nor unsafe to use modern smokeless cartridges through it. I once owned a shotgun which had never been proofed, but I used it for many years before moving it on. I cant think why it would be chambered for 3” if your RFD states nothing longer than 2.5”? There are some very knowledgeable folk on here whom may be able to help, but it would be worth further investigation to get a definitive answer. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jg1 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Yes interesting nonetheless, Many thanks for your contribution Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Can we see a picture showing the proof marks on the action and under the forend (may need to unscrew woodwork) on the barrels? On a side note nearly all 2.5 inch nitro 410 cartridges operate at similar pressures to the 3 inch (i.e. At or above the 12 bore magnum pressures), so cannot see any reason not to use 3 inch if the chambers are long enough. It may just be the dealer did not want to risk the lack of uk superior proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jg1 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Hello Stonepark, Thanks for your input, unfortunately I am away from the gun safe for a few days so I can't upload any photos but when I get back i'll put some up on this thread, maybe check back on Mon. evening. I think you are probably right that the dealer just didn't want to commit himself to advising 3" cartridges for the gun, but we'll wait and see what people say when I get round to uploading some of the proofmark photos. Many Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy1950 Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 No expert on shotguns, or much else for that matter, but would have thought that the shotgun is either in proof or not. If not the dealer is in contravention of the proof acts. Its not enough to say you cant shoot the cartridges that the gun is chambered for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 28 minutes ago, Flyboy1950 said: No expert on shotguns, or much else for that matter, but would have thought that the shotgun is either in proof or not. If not the dealer is in contravention of the proof acts. Its not enough to say you cant shoot the cartridges that the gun is chambered for. That’s a fair point. If the gun doesn’t have the relevant proof marks he shouldn’t have sold it to you. Is it entered on your ticket as ‘sold’? If so then it must be in proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jg1 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Yes it's on my licence as 'sold' but I'm certain that the APM mark on the reciever was the proofmark from a spanish proof house. I haven't had chance to get the forend off yet so there may be more markings there, but from memory the only markings were the serial number and 'APM'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) The APM mark is not a proof mark it is the makers stamp ARMAS parkemy. Edited January 17, 2018 by Andy H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jg1 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Hi Andy, As i've alluded to i've only been shooting for 3-4 weeks so you'll have to forgive my lack of knowledge in this area, but I specifically asked him whether it was in proof and said yes it was. There may have been a few other markings on the gun from memory but I can't say for sure at this moment. Thanks for clearing that up Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 If it is Spanish and was proofed in Spain it should bare a stamp of a conquistadors helmet over a shield (Eibar proof mark) Crossed guns (barrel provisional proof) The letters BP on a shield (obligatory nitro proof) And for magnum or supplementary proof it will have the letters CH on a shield with crossed swords Also the proof pressure in kilograms (ie: 1000 or 1200kg or similar) Needless to say it should have the chamber length and bore sizes stamped on it too...in millimetres. In Spain the chamber depth should read something like 410-76 stamped in a box. 410 for the cartridge and 76 for the chamber depth. 76mm or 3". I have no idea why the dealer told you what he did but I would get it checked by some one who knows what they are talking about. Or at least post some pics when you can. We cannot check bore sizes verses bore stamps online however Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jg1 Posted January 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 If it is a folding poacher fold the gun and you should see all the proofmark's on the barrel flat's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jg1 Posted January 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Okay here are the photos. Just a few things to note the chamber is stamped 410-76. There is an emblem with BP in it. And there is a number (1300) and then something like np/cm^2, unfortunately the scratch just covers it there. So I presume it is safe to shoot 3" cartridges out of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 I would use 3" cartridges in it without hesitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 28 minutes ago, motty said: I would use 3" cartridges in it without hesitation. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 That's certainly what it's proofed for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jg1 Posted January 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Okay guys, Thanks for your help Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-shifter Posted July 27, 2018 Report Share Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) Hi there. I have just registered to the forum as I have just got one of these guns and was doings some due diligence on the proof marks. It came from a very reputable dealer but I always like to make sure. Interestingly, mine has all the same proof markings as yours, although they look like they have been stamped at 4:55 on a Friday afternoon. Mine doesn't have the proof stamps on the barrels, only down the middle of the barrels, but what seems to be odd about mine is that if you believe the proof, it has been chambered for 12ga magnums, as it is stamped 12-76 i am confident it will be fine, as all the parkemy 410s I can find are chambered for a 3 inch shell, but I am guessing that’s whoever proofed the gun was probably in a massive rush, hence the wonky stamps and the incorrect gauge stamp on the gun anyone have any thoughts on this? Edited July 27, 2018 by Mr-shifter Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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