Fenn trapping new rules

[30-6]

With the new rules now put back to Jan 2019 , it seems fenns are reprived a little bit longer.

I know this ruling is an international thing, but why is it only stoats ? Surely if it's ok for a bigger animal, say rat, it's ok for a smaller animal like a stoat ? The time from capture to death which is what it's all about must be less for a stoat than a rat or does each animal get alloted their own time limit ?

Is it to purposely to protect stoats ?

I personally only use fenns to target rat, odd squirrel and odd rabbit. The rats around the farm buildings are targeted all year round, with the others only as needed. There is no shoot, the only threat stoats could pose is in the chicken coop, but with only one or two seen now and then, I class them as friend not foe.

I can understand some people need to control them, so is this ruling aimed at other countries more than us, where they are harvested for fur rather than a pest species and we are just caught up in it ?

 

[ClemFandango]

I don't think it's to do with protecting stoats as DEFRA have approved the goodnature trap for use on Stoats. 

[Novice]

All up to date info in link 

https://www.gwct.org.uk/advisory/faqs/aihts/

As I understand it, the agreement relates to commercial furbearers of which the stoats is the only one we have indigenous to the UK. 

What worries me is that as I read it, both the mk6 fenn and the bmi magnum traps also fall short of the business standards and so they won't be able to be set anywhere that they may catch a stoats, which is pretty much anywhere you'd think of setting them. 

We seem to be sleepwalking into a situation where in less than a year we won't be able to effectively tunnel trap for mustelids, rats and squirrels. 

[30-6]

So, after reading that link ( which is the most informative I have read to date ), it answered one of my questions that we still have to comply if / when we leave the EU.

My prediction is, with the rat / rabbit / squirrel explosion that we can have in UK, the government relies on " people " to control pests. If they want this to continue they would be foolish to ban fenns. So they will stay but be outlawed for stoats. Or is that just wishful thinking ?

I suppose putting stickers on tunnels saying " no stoats allowed " would not be acceptable ?

[30-6]

That must have been a sicko advert when they advertised for testers.

Job description :-  Watching animals enter a trap to their death. Protective glasses, gloves and stopwatch supplied as mandatory, prodding stick optional.

I bet the scrapmen are rubbing their hands in anticipation of an outright ban.

[ClemFandango]

4 hours ago, 30-6 said:

That must have been a sicko advert when they advertised for testers.

Job description :-  Watching animals enter a trap to their death. Protective glasses, gloves and stopwatch supplied as mandatory, prodding stick optional.

I bet the scrapmen are rubbing their hands in anticipation of an outright ban.

don't scrap them. 

put them to one side and you can sell them to pubs for £50 a pop in 25 years. 

[Stonepark]

The fenns would be compliant with properly designed tunnels.

Bit like a lobster trap, need tunnel entrance to close down access and put head and shoulders directly onto treadle plate which should be at ground level.

 

Most current tunnels are just open boxes and animal has to clamber over trap above ground level from different angles so no guarantee of a good strike, hence why they fail.

[whitehackle]

Iv just been on the gwct snaring and trapping course. They said that any trap that could not guarantee a head strike would/could not pass the test. I think the animal had to die with in 45 seconds.

There are a few traps that have passed and we can use. The good nature trap seems very good. But at £100 each, I dont think many estates will want to run many. The DOC traps look like the direct replacement for the fenn, and seem very good, but I think they are around £27 each, so still.alot more money than the fenn.

 

The DOC 150 is the same size as the fenn, so can be used in the same tunnels 

Hopfuly the prices will come down

Edited May 6, 2018 by whitehackle

[Stonepark]

8 minutes ago, whitehackle said:

 

The DOC 150 is the same size as the fenn, so can be used in the same tunnels.

Only if the tunnels are modified with baffles to direct target over the plate, setting the DOC 150 in an open tunnel is no different from a fenn trap and would result in a failure to comply.

It is not the trap per se but the method of deployment to ensure head strike which has to change and i suspect if some effort was put in with tunnel design we could keep the fenn.

 

[whitehackle]

They are hoping to drop the wording about the baffles, so that the trap can be set in the same way we would set a fenn

[Novice]

15 hours ago, Stonepark said:

Only if the tunnels are modified with baffles to direct target over the plate, setting the DOC 150 in an open tunnel is no different from a fenn trap and would result in a failure to comply.

It is not the trap per se but the method of deployment to ensure head strike which has to change and i suspect if some effort was put in with tunnel design we could keep the fenn.

 

Do you have any suggestions on tunnel design? I appreciate what you're saying as the doc, as part of the licence, has to be used in a standard tunnel with consistent dimensions. I'm fairly sure that part of the doc trigger design almost ensures a head catch, whereas the fenn is more likely to catch across the body and shoulders. 

I know of someone who was involved in trying to get a further version of the fenn licenced but it couldn't pass the test. As I understand it, the trap has to kill 6 stoats on the trot within 45 seconds each to pass (no doubt there are also other criteria involved). The "improved" version couldn't do it either. 

As I've said above, my worry is that the amended legislation will create a situation where even the mk6 fenn or 116 magnum can't be used as there will be no way to exclude stoats while also allowing target species to enter the tunnel. 

[Stonepark]

3 hours ago, Novice said:

Do you have any suggestions on tunnel design? I appreciate what you're saying as the doc, as part of the licence, has to be used in a standard tunnel with consistent dimensions. I'm fairly sure that part of the doc trigger design almost ensures a head catch, whereas the fenn is more likely to catch across the body and shoulders. 

I know of someone who was involved in trying to get a further version of the fenn licenced but it couldn't pass the test. As I understand it, the trap has to kill 6 stoats on the trot within 45 seconds each to pass (no doubt there are also other criteria involved). The "improved" version couldn't do it either. 

As I've said above, my worry is that the amended legislation will create a situation where even the mk6 fenn or 116 magnum can't be used as there will be no way to exclude stoats while also allowing target species to enter the tunnel. 

 

 

Tunnel requires to force target to put head and shoulders over trap and restrict its potential escape. The drawing attached (sorry for quality but just a quick one) has mesh internal baffles served by two tunnels which close down to force target through trap. PVC pipe (just wider than jaw reach so does not interfere with mechanism) ensures animal cannot jump up out of reach of trap jaws.

There is no reason this type of trap could not use a fen tap set in as part of the floor as demonstrated.

[Novice]

18 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

 

 

Tunnel requires to force target to put head and shoulders over trap and restrict its potential escape. The drawing attached (sorry for quality but just a quick one) has mesh internal baffles served by two tunnels which close down to force target through trap. PVC pipe (just wider than jaw reach so does not interfere with mechanism) ensures animal cannot jump up out of reach of trap jaws.

There is no reason this type of trap could not use a fen tap set in as part of the floor as demonstrated.

 

I think the problem is that even in the lab test, where presumably they do ensure that the target is stepping properly on the plate, they weren't reaching death/unconsciousness, within the required 45 seconds. Regardless of the tunnel design, although I agree entirely with you that steps can be taken to ensure a better strike rate, the fenn isn't killing them quick enough. 

[Konnie]

Wonder how in depth they go, dissect the victim to see if it was actually dead and not just nerves giving indication of life, 

The only live rat I have found in a fenn was caught by it's tail, 45 seconds is a long time with the force of a fenn trap.

[scolopax]

found lots of live weasels in Fenns, but no live stoats