Shooting Short Eared Owls

[Uilleachan]

On 30 August 2018 at 22:01, stagboy said:

Vicarious liability seems to allow the civil test (balance of probabilities) to usurp the criminal test (beyond reasonable doubt) in order to impose very serious sanctions. This seems fundamentally unjust to me, yet some argue that it is no more unjust than the laws relating to pub landlords and their staff, or the owners of shops whose staff sell fags and alcohol, etc.  Ie you, the owner, are liable if your staff misbehave on your property.

VC is already operating in Scotland,  and Scottish conservation bodies make the case that it is proving to be at least partially effective in reducing raptor crime. (And no doubt it gives the authorities a warm feeling when they fine an estate huge sums of money.)

Frankly, if grouse moors don't manage to show a significant decline in the current rate of "incidents", such as the Cumbrian owl thing and the recent Bowland peregrine thing, and also a concurrent increase in certain raptors densities on grouse moors, then I fear driven grouse shooting will have been the author of its own destruction (with knock-on effects for the rest of us). 

Raptor persecution is a gift of really potent ammunition to the enemies of shooting. Indeed, many people who otherwise wouldn't feel strongly motivated against shooting are turned into antis because of raptor persecution. 

Thats the nub of it for me.

Where the habitat exists apex raptors are conspicuous by their absence. It's as simple as that. It's undeniable that, in Scotland at least, the suitable habitat devoid of apex raptors coincides with managed grouse moor. An uncomfortable truth. 

We can argue the toss on most appropriate uses for upland moor, most viable etc. But thats to miss the fundamental point of this issue with regards to the status quo, which is: like it or not it's public opinion that advises policy, lose the battle for hearts and minds with that general public and we lose the war. 

 

 

[Mice!]

4 hours ago, scotslad said:

The ony reason they're really is, is that EO are very intolerant of other BoP's have been caught on film raiding HH nests. So they're worried that if EO become more numerous they will scare many HH off, the fact that Buzzards have been doing that to Kestrals for decedes to the point hardly any Kestrals locally now, but they can't have that with their precious HH, as it is their best political/PR weapon to target shooting. I thik i said earlier in this thread 60% of HH chicks fledged of grouse moors this year.

I imagine you're right there, but it still sounds so very wrong.

I'm not sure how visible Eagle owls are in there general daily behaviour, folk drive miles to see eagles and ospreys, red kites, so I'd think they would for eagle owls as well, if there visible.

[Scully]

 No apology necessary.  I feel your frustration and admittedly do believe that the RSPB are a bunch of agenda driven hypocrites, and totally agree with you regarding the Songbird Survival charity which does some sterling work and is no fan of the RSPB. But we do need to base our claims on facts so we can at least claim the higher ground as regards honesty. That’s all it is.

[old man]

Truthful facts and the RSPB?  Mm?

As likely as the RSCA?