Discussion on western involvement in the middle east (split from Salisbury thread)

[Hamster]

10 minutes ago, Scully said:

Which countries did you have in mind in your first paragraph? America? Russia? England? Germany? China? Japan? 

The Russians deny it for the same reason they like to deny everything detrimental to the image of the party; it’s all part of playing the wounded innocent underdog role they like to portray to their own citizens. Have they ever admitted to state sponsored drug taking in athletics? Have they ever admitted to state sponsored murder of gays, dissidents/political opponents? They’re still fighting the Cold War, overseen by gangsters riddled with fear and mistrust, and that isn’t a conspiracy. 

I had in mind the countries that lied us into the fake wars of late, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria for starters, Yemen too is ultimately one of their handiworks. 

[Yellow Bear]

2 minutes ago, Hamster said:

I had in mind the countries that lied us into the fake wars of late, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria for starters, Yemen too is ultimately one of their handiworks. 

Predictable response, however you never mention Crimea, Chechnya, Ukraine in your fake wars as well as attempting to destabilize the Baltic states and Finland.

[Scully]

7 minutes ago, Hamster said:

I had in mind the countries that lied us into the fake wars of late, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria for starters, Yemen too is ultimately one of their handiworks. 

I know, but my point was that there aren’t that many countries which haven’t lied to or murdered it’s own citizens, or displaced its own or other countries peoples, at one time or another. 

For the duration of this topic ( both the original thread and this resurrected one ) you seem intent on trying to drag the discussion into the Middle East to strengthen your argument for the Russians not being responsible for the events in Salisbury. I couldn’t care less about the Middle East; they’ve been killing each other since the beginning of time and will still be doing so long after I’m gone. This thread is about the events in Salisbury.

[Hamster]

18 minutes ago, Scully said:

I know, but my point was that there aren’t that many countries which haven’t lied to or murdered it’s own citizens, or displaced its own or other countries peoples, at one time or another. 

For the duration of this topic ( both the original thread and this resurrected one ) you seem intent on trying to drag the discussion into the Middle East to strengthen your argument for the Russians not being responsible for the events in Salisbury. I couldn’t care less about the Middle East; they’ve been killing each other since the beginning of time and will still be doing so long after I’m gone. This thread is about the events in Salisbury.

Actually no they haven't, it's the West that's been killing them, if not literally then via proxy created wars. 

[Scully]

10 hours ago, Hamster said:

Actually no they haven't, it's the West that's been killing them, if not literally then via proxy created wars. 

The Arab nations are tribal people; they’ve been killing each other since before the Crusades. 

Either way, it has nothing to do with Salisbury.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Scully

[Scully]

3 hours ago, Hamster said:

 

You have a point, best you go and tell the bloke who brought it up. ?  

This has nothing to do with Salisbury either but just for educational purposes, Christians have been killing each other by the millions, WW1/2 claimed some 50-60 million alone, the Arabs are mere amateurs. 

I'm not too sure what religious faith has to do with it either, but if you think christians have the monopoly on killing each other by the millions, perhaps it's not me who needs the 'educational'. 

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Scully

[KB1]

9 hours ago, Hamster said:

This has nothing to do with Salisbury either but just for educational purposes, Christians have been killing each other by the millions, WW1/2 claimed some 50-60 million alone, the Arabs are mere amateurs. 

The Arab states are pro's (Using your analogy), as they are still hard at it.......

I worked out there for a few years, and it was a daily occurence Shia and Sunni's bumping each other off

Edited September 7, 2018 by KB1

[Yellow Bear]

1 hour ago, KB1 said:

The Arab states are pro's (Using your analogy), as they are still hard at it.......

They also were (and possibly still are) the worlds most prolific slavers.

[hambone]

7 hours ago, Hamster said:

They have been accused of a grievous international crime with billion dollar implications, they have every right to demand access to so called evidence, the reason it is not granted should be obvious to those who are too blind to see. What nobody has yet offered is a rational motive, why would Russia want to do this, what possible good could it achieve for them that warrants such widespread problems within the US vassal states ? 

You have a point, best you go and tell the bloke who brought it up. ?  

This has nothing to do with Salisbury either but just for educational purposes, Christians have been killing each other by the millions, WW1/2 claimed some 50-60 million alone, the Arabs are mere amateurs. 

World War half is it? Missed that one in my history lessons ?

[Hamster]

3 hours ago, KB1 said:

The Arab states are pro's (Using your analogy), as they are still hard at it.......

I worked out there for a few years, and it was a daily occurence Shia and Sunni's bumping each other off

Really ? What like even worse than the West dropping bombs and droning them ? ?  Youtube "history of wars in the last 1000 years" it'll open your eyes as to which continents are the real pro's. 

 

6 hours ago, Scully said:

I'm not too sure what religious faith has to do with it either, but if you think christians have the monopoly on killing each other by the millions, perhaps it's not me who needs the 'educational'. 

 

Precisely nothing, thanks for spotting the deliberate mistake and pointing it out, now if yoos blokes could just stop referring to all middle eastern (OK then brown) as Muslim I'd be mighty appreciative. ? 

Europeans don't have the monopoly on killing one another, it's just that they're so good at it compared to most, I refer you to the same Youtube search I prescribed for KB1 ? . 

[Hamster]

2 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

They also were (and possibly still are) the worlds most prolific slavers.

Really ? Considering it's common knowledge that America was literally built and got its early wealth via slavery we best not go there . 

Google "for profit prison system" you might get a shock about murikkka locking people up and paying them slave wages, TODAY. 

[Zapp]

We're not having another thread derailed like this so this is the place for those who wish to continue thus line of discussion rather than the Salisbury thread 

[Hamster]

Just now, KB1 said:

If we are to speculate whose 'worse' than who, we would be here an eternity.  However, what I do see is that our media hardly ever portray the enormity of everyday killing of Arabs by Arabs that actually happens on a daily basis. 

No we wouldn't, it's extremely simple maffs, add up the dead from WW1 and 2, then Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen (in the last century by the British) and now by proxy, the 5 million Indians starved by Churchill, the 6-8 million Iranians starved by the axis in WW1, the 10 million Africans killed by some Belgium duke (oh yes googalable), the Australian aborigine murdered by Europeans, the millions of native Americans murdered by Americans, the list would take 1-2 hours to fully complete......................................the middle east is not fit to clean Europe's shoes in a killing contest. 

[Scully]

7 minutes ago, Hamster said:

No we wouldn't, it's extremely simple maffs, add up the dead from WW1 and 2, then Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen (in the last century by the British) and now by proxy, the 5 million Indians starved by Churchill, the 6-8 million Iranians starved by the axis in WW1, the 10 million Africans killed by some Belgium duke (oh yes googalable), the Australian aborigine murdered by Europeans, the millions of native Americans murdered by Americans, the list would take 1-2 hours to fully complete......................................the middle east is not fit to clean Europe's shoes in a killing contest. 

 

 

23 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Really ? What like even worse than the West dropping bombs and droning them ? ?  Youtube "history of wars in the last 1000 years" it'll open your eyes as to which continents are the real pro's. 

 

Precisely nothing, thanks for spotting the deliberate mistake and pointing it out, now if yoos blokes could just stop referring to all middle eastern (OK then brown) as Muslim I'd be mighty appreciative. ? 

Europeans don't have the monopoly on killing one another, it's just that they're so good at it compared to most, I refer you to the same Youtube search I prescribed for KB1 ? . 

You can do a search if you like, but I never mentioned muslims at all. Oh, and don't forget the chinese or the mongols. Like I said, emoticons wont cut it I'm afraid. 

[KB1]

1 minute ago, Hamster said:

No we wouldn't, it's extremely simple maffs, add up the dead from WW1 and 2, then Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen (in the last century by the British) and now by proxy, the 5 million Indians starved by Churchill, the 6-8 million Iranians starved by the axis in WW1, the 10 million Africans killed by some Belgium duke (oh yes googalable), the Australian aborigine murdered by Europeans, the millions of native Americans murdered by Americans, the list would take 1-2 hours to fully complete......................................the middle east is not fit to clean Europe's shoes in a killing contest. 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, as what I've witnessed first hand colours my opinion somewhat different to yours.  Many Middle Eastern countries treat other nationalities, such as Fillipino, Pakistani, Indian and their neighbours with such disrespect that you could not begin to imagine.....  If a Filipino goes to the police to report a rape, then the police (often) will rape her too....  Pakistani workers get beaten to a pulp everyday whilst waiting for transport, and this is a common 'sport' for some Arabs.  I've witnessed Sunni and Shia pulling machetes on each other for trivial spats. The list is endless.

If you or I were roaming in an unprotected area, it wouldnt matter how polite and accomodating you were; you are an infadel and your mortality odds would be pretty low, I can assure you!

It really is a different world to what some think, and if anyone were to tell me what it was like before I went there, I would not believe them, so I can empathise with your comments in all honesty.

[Yellow Bear]

35 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Really ? Considering it's common knowledge that America was literally built and got its early wealth via slavery

Please check your facts as to who provided the bulk of these slaves to the traders - but there again you don't want to go there.

[Hamster]

Just now, Yellow Bear said:

Please check your facts as to who provided the bulk of these slaves to the traders - but there again you don't want to go there.

Yes some Arabs did deal slaves but that doesn't mean Europeans didn't steal Africans from Africa unaided nor excuse the fact they kept them and their subsequent offspring as slaves for centuries. 

[scobydog]

On ‎06‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 21:42, Hamster said:

Actually no they haven't, it's the West that's been killing them, if not literally then via proxy created wars. 

Actually they have at least  since Rashidun times where some Arab caliphs had armies of up to 100'000, hardly any westerners had been near the place at those times, but lets blame them anyway, and Arab countries were very well recorded as raiding coastal villages all around Europe and taking entire communities as slaves during the middle ages, so don't try to make them out to be goody 2 shoes. Most of the slaves taken to America were sold to the traders by other African tribes.

[Yellow Bear]

9 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Yes some Arabs did deal slaves but that doesn't mean Europeans didn't steal Africans from Africa unaided nor excuse the fact they kept them and their subsequent offspring as slaves for centuries. 

The USA act that outlawed slavery was passed about 1810 but it was 1865, following the Civil war, before it was totally gone in line with most of Europe and the Caribbean - it was about 1920 before the middle east started to introduce such legislation with the last being IIRC being Iran and Saudi in the 1960s .

[Retsdon]

51 minutes ago, KB1 said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, as what I've witnessed first hand colours my opinion somewhat different to yours.  Many Middle Eastern countries treat other nationalities, such as Fillipino, Pakistani, Indian and their neighbours with such disrespect that you could not begin to imagine.....  If a Filipino goes to the police to report a rape, then the police (often) will rape her too....  Pakistani workers get beaten to a pulp everyday whilst waiting for transport, and this is a common 'sport' for some Arabs.  I've witnessed Sunni and Shia pulling machetes on each other for trivial spats. The list is endless.

If you or I were roaming in an unprotected area, it wouldnt matter how polite and accomodating you were; you are an infadel and your mortality odds would be pretty low, I can assure you!

It really is a different world to what some think, and if anyone were to tell me what it was like before I went there, I would not believe them, so I can empathise with your comments in all honesty.

It sounds like you were in a terrible place. Where was that?

[Hamster]

15 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

The USA act that outlawed slavery was passed about 1810 but it was 1865, following the Civil war, before it was totally gone in line with most of Europe and the Caribbean - it was about 1920 before the middle east started to introduce such legislation with the last being IIRC being Iran and Saudi in the 1960s .

What's legislation got to do with it, slavery was a thing in America, blacks are discriminated against in the US today, don't know about Saudi but Iran has not participated in slavery, not in the context that others have at any rate, even ancient Persian artefacts are noted for the absence of slaves. 

28 minutes ago, scobydog said:

Actually they have at least  since Rashidun times where some Arab caliphs had armies of up to 100'000, hardly any westerners had been near the place at those times, but lets blame them anyway, and Arab countries were very well recorded as raiding coastal villages all around Europe and taking entire communities as slaves during the middle ages, so don't try to make them out to be goody 2 shoes. Most of the slaves taken to America were sold to the traders by other African tribes.

I haven't.

Oh that's alright then, for a moment I thought keeping slave labour was wrong regardless of who you bought or stole them from. 

 

[Retsdon]

Just now, Hamster said:

don't know about Saudi

Slavery was normal in Saudi until relatively recently. Fifty years ago there was barely a road in the place and the population was largely illiterate Desert hicks - think Deliverance in the sand. . It didn't have - and still doesn't have anything approaching the cultural richness and civilization of Iran.

[Hamster]

1 minute ago, Retsdon said:

Slavery was normal in Saudi until relatively recently. Fifty years ago there was barely a road in the place and the population was largely illiterate Desert hicks - think Deliverance in the sand. . It didn't have - and still doesn't have anything approaching the cultural richness and civilization of Iran.

That doesn't surprise me, we are so lucky to have them as our allies. ? ? ?

[scobydog]

7 minutes ago, Hamster said:

What's legislation got to do with it, slavery was a thing in America, blacks are discriminated against in the US today, don't know about Saudi but Iran has not participated in slavery, not in the context that others have at any rate, even ancient Persian artefacts are noted for the absence of slaves. 

I haven't.

Oh that's alright then, for a moment I thought keeping slave labour was wrong regardless of who you bought or stole them from. 

 

Where did I say it was alright ????

[Hamster]

Just now, scobydog said:

Where did I say it was alright ????

You didn't, tis sarcasm.