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Zetter

.22 FAC air running at 45 ft/lb

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Ive been looking at FAC air again and have seen a couple of Daystates running at 45 ft/lb in .22.

 

Now running the number through an energy conversion calculator this is going to be throwing even 21 grain stuff like bisley mags at approaching or over 1000fps which from past experience would be starting to get to the muzzle velocity that would give stability/ accuracy issues.

I used to have a .25 cal FAC air in the past that was running at about 50 ft/lb and found that lighter weight 25 cal pellets ( i.e. those at about 21 grain) grouped a fair bit worse than stuff in the 25 grain range with these light pellets getting up towards 1000 fps so I thought at the time they were starting to destabilise due to the velocity. 

Has anyone got/ used a .22 air rifle running at the sort of muzzle energy above and if so how did you find it accuracy wise and what sort of pellets worked?

 

Cheers in advance

 

Zetter 

 

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.22lr sub sonic runs at 1050fps so the right slug / pellet will stabalize at that velocity in the right barrel.

I have a daystate air ranger rated at 40 ftlb. If i run daystate 15.5g pellets and check the energy it comes out at 35 ftlb and is accurate (inch at 40 yds off sticks) and sub sonic. It may need very heavy pellets to get upto the 40 ftlb and I have tried bisley mags and they were not so accurate. I have not spent a lot of time messing with it as it is already better than me but I suspect getting the right pellet / slug would pay dividends. 

I mostly use it for rabbits out to about 60 yds, rats and squirrels which i will body shoot (H&L). 

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30 fpe area is best for .22 cal .

Daystate make those 40 fpe guns because they can and daft people will buy them .

I cant think of a single advantage of a heavy bis mag at 40 fpe over a lighter 16 grn jsb at 30 fpe .not a one .

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49 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

30 fpe area is best for .22 cal .

Possibly your findings

Daystate make those 40 fpe guns because they can and daft people will buy them .

Yes, there are a lot of us out there, including me. It puts a smile on my face every time I take it out. 

I cant think of a single advantage of a heavy bis mag at 40 fpe over a lighter 16 grn jsb at 30 fpe .not a one .

My Airwolf pushes Biz Mags out at 38ftlbs, from a 40ftlb spec rifle. The accuracy and distance is blistering. Not so when its set to the lower setting of close to 30ftlbs firing a 16grn Diablo style pellet of any make. The knockdown ability  is far superior with the former than the latter. 

 

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59 minutes ago, turbo33 said:

The knockdown ability  is far superior with the former than the latter

Rubbish. 

Knock down ability ????  How do you quantify that. ? What does it even  mean. Old wives tales have no place in scientific shooting and ballistics. 

For the record a light to medium projectile will impart MORE  energy INTO your quarry than a heavy solid one .

This isnt just my opionion  its shared by most of the shooting community. 

 

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3 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Rubbish. 

Knock down ability ????  How do you quantify that. ? What does it even  mean. Old wives tales have no place in scientific shooting and ballistics. 

For the record a light to medium projectile will impart MORE  energy INTO your quarry than a heavy solid one .

This isnt just my opionion  its shared by most of the shooting community. 

 

And thats the thing Ultrastu. You don't like anything that isn't within your window of opinion and always, respond with an unnecessary level of arrogance leaning on the patronising.

All of us that also shoot centre fire know, that fast, light to medium, isn't always the best and that a heavier projectile can offer better performance. If that wasn't the case, for example, 17 hornet would be a legal calibre for Roe in the south, when the minimum is 243. 

You are so consumed with ballistic info, that it clouds your reasoning. What counts is actual performance out in the field, not on paper.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Rubbish. 

Knock down ability ????  How do you quantify that. ? What does it even  mean. Old wives tales have no place in scientific shooting and ballistics. 

For the record a light to medium projectile will impart MORE  energy INTO your quarry than a heavy solid one .

This isnt just my opionion  its shared by most of the shooting community. 

 

So working on your above statement

The British military stopped using the 7.62 round in favour of a smaller calibre of 5.56

If hit with the 7.62 in most cases it was lights out but with the smaller calibre of 5.56 more injurys were inflicted.This meant it took 2 to 4 men to carry the casualty off the battlefield and take them out of the game for a while.

I don't get how you think a smaller calibre has more knock down power at the receiving end over a larger calibre.

Maybe I'm missing something?I'm sure you'll be along shortly with the answer.

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Ok so i might have come on a bit strong with my reasoning .sorry i apologize turbo .soz .im not trying to make enemies or alienate anyone .

Its just that i often come across so many inaccuracies when it comes to ballistics most of them that should have been buried with the dinosaurs and yet they still crop up and it pains me so much  .i feel i HAVE to try and correct them .

I know not every one will agree .and i obviously dont know every thing .and im sure i might have a few things wrong (as with all things in life ).but my experience and research  is all based on real world findings. And as such I believe is the truth, it certainly works for me .

Sorry if i offend .i mean not to .

 

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Just now, Bluebarrels said:

So working on your above statement

The British military stopped using the 7.62 round in favour of a smaller calibre of 5.56

If hit with the 7.62 in most cases it was lights out but with the smaller calibre of 5.56 more injurys were inflicted.This meant it took 2 to 4 men to carry the casualty off the battlefield and take them out of the game for a while.

I don't get how you think a smaller calibre has more knock down power at the receiving end over a larger calibre.

Maybe I'm missing something?I'm sure you'll be along shortly with the answer.

Problem with trying to equate a .308 cf and .223 cf to an airgun we are talking massive differences in energy .not really applicable .

But .lets try a different take on it

..17 hmr and .22 lr sub .

250 fpe 2500 fpe 17 grns  v 100 fpe 1050 fpe and 40 grns 

 

Fast and light v slow and heavy .

Which make the biggest hole and more damage ? Most knock down power .? 

We all know its the .17 

The mass(of the .22 ) in this case doesnt provide the energy transfer the the 17 grns does .

 

 

 

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Also the military standardized on a bullet that could ne used across nato that was effective .flat .lower recoil .less reliability issues. And you could carry more ..

The knock down power (what ever that is )  had little to do with the move from 308 to .233     .762 - .556 

Just now, Bluebarrels said:

If I hit u with a 6lb lump hammer,or a 3lb lump hammer what's gonna hurt you more?

3 lbs 

Go on ask why ? 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

uote "..17 hmr and .22 lr sub .

250 fpe 2500 fpe 17 grns  v 100 fpe 1050 fpe and 40 grns 

Fast and light v slow and heavy .

Which make the biggest hole and more damage ? Most knock down power .? 

We all know its the .17 

The mass(of the .22 ) in this case doesnt provide the energy transfer the the 17 grns does "

Go on ask why ? 

 

. I think you'll find there is rather a large difference in a frangible bullet with a ballistic polymer tip than a solid slug. Not really the same thing is it?

 

Theres a saying..............................

 

 

when in a hole!!!

Edited by turbo33

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Posted (edited)

It had a lot to do with the move from 7.62 to 5.56 apart from the reasons mentioned in your post,it was deemed more effective to engage with the smaller less fatal round,injure the enemy and create a casualty that would need carrying from the battlefield therefore reducing the numbers shooting at you.If shot with the 7.62 in majority of cases they would not survive so no need to stretcher off,just bodybag on endex

Edited by Bluebarrels

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Ok since you wont ask i will tell .

If you swing a 6 lbs lump hammer at 10 fps (about right ) you would strike with 9 fpe of energy so about the same as a sub 12 airgun (presuming you hit what you aimed at ) as 10 fps is slow and id probably move out the way .

With a 3 lbs hammer you should be able to swing it twice as fast. So 20 fps .

This would give a striking energy of 18.5 fpe .so twice the energy 

 

Half the weight. But twice the speed equals twice the energy .And your more likey  to be more accurate and im less likely to get out of the way .ie its way way more effective .

Fyi 

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7 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

 

 

4 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Ok since you wont ask i will tell .

If you swing a 6 lbs lump hammer at 10 fps (about right ) you would strike with 9 fpe of energy so about the same as a sub 12 airgun (presuming you hit what you aimed at ) as 10 fps is slow and id probably move out the way .

With a 3 lbs hammer you should be able to swing it twice as fast. So 20 fps .

This would give a striking energy of 18.5 fpe .so twice the energy 

 

Half the weight. But twice the speed equals twice the energy .And your more likey  to be more accurate and im less likely to get out of the way .ie its way way more effective .

Fyi 

Thanks for that,I asked because I knew you would have the answer,and your the only ballistics expert I know.

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Thanks i will take that as a compliment .

Its one of the reasons bruce lee was so effective and dangerous as a fighter .he weighed less than my dog but the speed he could hit with was soooo fast .it more than double made up for his lack of mass .

Energy is a function of speed and mass 

With the emphasis  being on the speed .

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3 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Thanks i will take that as a compliment .

Its one of the reasons bruce lee was so effective and dangerous as a fighter .he weighed less than my dog but the speed he could hit with was soooo fast .it more than double made up for his lack of mass .

Energy is a function of speed and mass 

With the emphasis  being on the speed .

Jeez, I bet you even dream about ballistic penetration,do u ever wake up sweating ?

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Ultrastu,

Your examples to justify your reasoning are becoming more ridiculous and really quite desperate! Bow to the knowledge of someone who's life has depended on realism and not your absurd paperwork hypothesis. 

 

Oh and apologies to Zetter.

Have a look at Matt Dubber on AirarmshuntingSA or Air hunters both on the tube. They are running very high power FX's with Neilsen Slugs. Lots of useful information there. I'm not sure that Neilsen slugs are available in the uk........?

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Posted (edited)
Just now, turbo33 said:

Your examples to justify your reasoning are becoming more ridiculous and really quite desperate! Bow to the knowledge of someone who's life has depended on realism and not your absurd paperwor

 

 

Edited by Ultrastu

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43 minutes ago, Fisheruk said:

I’m with Ultrastu, 👍

Beware of the 3lb ballistic penetrating hammer of his.😂😂👍

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the slr 7.62 was replaced because the army needed to spend money and what they got was a piece of **** fit for the bin ask the guys who had to use them

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18 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

30 fpe area is best for .22 cal .

Daystate make those 40 fpe guns because they can and daft people will buy them .

I cant think of a single advantage of a heavy bis mag at 40 fpe over a lighter 16 grn jsb at 30 fpe .not a one .

Seriously ?

Longer range shots or body shots or dropping bigger game, less wind drift, a lot more knock down power

Its like saying there's no benefit of a .22 LR over a .25 FAC..

If your going to say a well placed 30ftlb is all that's needed then your blinkered totally as to the purpose of having a heavier projectile with power behind it..

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