Velocette Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 I recently replaced a front wheel bearing with a replacement that was a double row taper roller type which comes in two halves and all nips up with the lock nut. Subsequently I've been told that the correct type is a double row ball bearing and that the taper type isn't suitable. This seems odd since I would have thought that a taper roller with its built in ability to take some lateral load would be at least as good,if not better than a ball bearing. Any opinions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornfree Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 Every front wheel drive bearing that I've replaced has been a double row ball bearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 25 minutes ago, Velocette said: I recently replaced a front wheel bearing with a replacement that was a double row taper roller type which comes in two halves and all nips up with the lock nut. Subsequently I've been told that the correct type is a double row ball bearing and that the taper type isn't suitable. This seems odd since I would have thought that a taper roller with its built in ability to take some lateral load would be at least as good,if not better than a ball bearing. Any opinions ? find that really strange............how would you maintain it and take up the slack..............on a static machine like a pump or electric motor that is the standard.......but wheels take shock load...and need to be adjusted as they wear in....... what vehicle is it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 Taper roller bearings have to be accurately torqued up which can be problematic when you consider the average assembly worker's competence. For some 30 years, most manufacturers have switched to double race thrust bearings which are designed to take opposing lateral loads. The carrier hubs have to be very accurately machined in order to apply the specified pre-load but they are more cost effective in that (Rover Montegos aside) they have a lower failure rate due to less room for production errors. The Japanese kept using taper bearings much longer but their workforce is in a different league from anyone else's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 depends on the vehicle and age if you removed roller bearings that's what goes back in, the machining on the hub is different for either bearing , same applies to trailers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocette Posted August 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 Its on a 2006 Jimny. The bearing fits into the wheel hub/disc carrier assembly. Its pressed into a lipped housing. First one set of rollers then its outer bearing track ,then the second outer bearing track and the second set of rollers dropped in. The outer housings have an inner lip which protrudes through each set of rollers.The whole lot is retained by a large circlip. The retaining nut pulls the centres together against axle. There is no adjustment possible with this or a ball bearing for that matter. The torque figure for the retaining nut is mentioned as being important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 wwoooow im getting old ....everyday is a skool day......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 if a one piece outer shell pressed in no adjustment, just torque to settings as they are preloaded , as you have mentioned a retaining clip sounds like it is, if two individual roller taper bearings they usually have a fair distance between the bearings you tighten down until you feel a resistance in the hub then back off quarter turn and pin the castle nut / locking tabs if in doubt have a look on you tube would have thought someone has done a video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 Google suggests non-taper bearings. https://www.bigjimny.com/mediawiki/index.php/Front_wheel_bearing_replacement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 12 hours ago, Westward said: Taper roller bearings have to be accurately torqued up which can be problematic when you consider the average assembly worker's competence. For some 30 years, most manufacturers have switched to double race thrust bearings which are designed to take opposing lateral loads. The carrier hubs have to be very accurately machined in order to apply the specified pre-load but they are more cost effective in that (Rover Montegos aside) they have a lower failure rate due to less room for production errors. The Japanese kept using taper bearings much longer but their workforce is in a different league from anyone else's. some of the automotive places I've worked at machine to smaller tolerances than aerospace, this depends on the parts obviously and is so that every part is pretty much identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocette Posted August 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 17 hours ago, Gordon R said: Google suggests non-taper bearings. https://www.bigjimny.com/mediawiki/index.php/Front_wheel_bearing_replacement That's right,,and so do the Jimny owners club but these taper rollers are listed and do fit. I was curious as to why they chose balls when rollers are available. The ball bearing assembly looks like this. Two inners,two races and one outer. The inners nip up to the back of the stub axle and the outer is located by a flange and a circlip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 I would not describe them as traditional taper bearings, which are normally rollers. Never come across these bearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocette Posted August 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 Sorry I wasn't clear,,these are the ball bearings that I took out,,,the taper rollers I replaced them with were the same construction but with tapers and corresponding tracks instead of balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 not to worry many cars use this type of bearing as standard to date and last longer , roller tapers are becoming of the past / trailers etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 18 hours ago, Velocette said: Sorry I wasn't clear,,these are the ball bearings that I took out,,,the taper rollers I replaced them with were the same construction but with tapers and corresponding tracks instead of balls. The ones pictured are thrust bearings. Not sure I'd want to replace them with taper rollers if I could get genuine Japanese OEM thrust bearings but ball bearing quality varies depending where it's made so taper rollers might be a good bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocette Posted August 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Westward said: The ones pictured are thrust bearings. Not sure I'd want to replace them with taper rollers if I could get genuine Japanese OEM thrust bearings but ball bearing quality varies depending where it's made so taper rollers might be a good bet. Who said every day is a school day? If these are thrust bearings does that mean that they are primarily designed to take end loading rather than the peripheral load of a wheel rotation.? I'm quite confused now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 19 hours ago, Velocette said: Who said every day is a school day? If these are thrust bearings does that mean that they are primarily designed to take end loading rather than the peripheral load of a wheel rotation.? I'm quite confused now. The channel which the balls roll in is called the race and with thrust bearings the race is shaped to accept a lateral load - but only from one side - as well as the normal load perpendicular to the shaft. Since the lateral forces on a vehicle hub vary from nothing to quite a lot, the bearings require the correct lateral preload applied at assembly time, otherwise they will fail after a short time ( see Rover Montego). A typical modern vehicle hub will have two such bearings facing opposite ways and in order to achieve proper preload, the machining has to be very, very precise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocette Posted August 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 That makes perfect sense,,,thanks for the clarity of your explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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