Rob85 Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.fourten.org.uk/Without_Lead_the_410_is_Dead.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiL-MLzkP3nAhWIRhUIHfg8Cc4QFjANegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw31f235_sxXV9Yk-t0dXbKe Came across this little article on Google while looking up the proposed lead shot phase out. I thought it was interesting even though it's based around the USAs perspective but I think it illustrates somewhat how it was all brought about for wildfowling etc in the uk as well regarding lead shot ingestion and how rather than science they used worst of the worst case scenarios to push for the bans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AULD YIN Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 Very Interesting read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 THats years old , and the .410 is not dead without lead. anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob85 Posted March 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 It may be old... but I had never seen it before so my sincere apologies for posting it. wasn't so much the .410 part I found interesting, I could care less about .410 really, it was more how they (governments/anti's etc) use worst of the worst case scenarios and push them out as an almost everyday thing coupled with the other part that was researched and that is that some of the non lead shot is actually more toxic and also the observation that shot above size 4(uk) quickly sinks deeper than what is the usual depth wildfowl will ingest it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rob85 said: It may be old... but I had never seen it before so my sincere apologies for posting it. wasn't so much the .410 part I found interesting, I could care less about .410 really, it was more how they (governments/anti's etc) use worst of the worst case scenarios and push them out as an almost everyday thing coupled with the other part that was researched and that is that some of the non lead shot is actually more toxic and also the observation that shot above size 4(uk) quickly sinks deeper than what is the usual depth wildfowl will ingest it. Some will not have seen it right enough, The same debates have raged on for years, the facts being Lead was doomed from the start, they were just looking for a way to ban it that is all. BASC did a great job of presenting lead in a favourable light, they really did. If the USA can not defend it haw can we it will be gone there next year or so. talk of it all the time on the usa forums. Its banned already in some areas i think all NNRs. Non lead toxic OH yes just look at copper . that will go probably reading this post right now working on it averey and co. The danes did some research on tungsten blamed it for cancer i thought they were banning it or looking at banning it some years ago now. Can find fault with anything if you look hard enough i suppose. The war on Lead will not stop that’s clear to see , its time for it to go now. we are just doing ourselves no favours defending it any longer. BASC did their best, but now its time to move on. The lead in ducks at dealers was a big let down to the pro lead cause, these people just broke the law and for no good reason other than sheer bloodymindedness and selfishness. Bascs call for compliance on this matter was completely ignored , the game dealers got sick of it all and we are now looking at the game dealers simply not trusting us, after all why should they we have so far given them no reason to trust us. Now we are where we are now. Looking at a total ban in five years, which is way better than a total ban in two years or this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 On 03/03/2020 at 03:21, lancer425 said: BASC did their best, but now it You are having' a larff...??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 28 minutes ago, harkom said: You are having' a larff...??? This is serious business we are dealing with here, Laughter as never been further from mt mind. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 58 minutes ago, harkom said: You are having' a larff...??? i’m laughing mate it’s hilarious the denial basc did no wrong decided today the grandson will not be joining me this year with the current basc management in place rather buy him a metal detector than watch him waste his time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 Seems to me the Game Dealer holds the cards on this one, if we switch to non toxic across the board they will buy every available Duck, Pheasant and Partridge out there...and at a sensible fair price ? I doubt it, no more game will be brought or sold than there is now On 03/03/2020 at 03:21, lancer425 said: The lead in ducks at dealers was a big let down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, clangerman said: i’m laughing mate it’s hilarious the denial basc did no wrong decided today the grandson will not be joining me this year with the current basc management in place rather buy him a metal detector than watch him waste his time Why BASC. ? What about the others? . Who else has any other options out there to solve the issues we face. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Why BASC. ? What about the others? . Who else has any other options out there to solve the issues we face. ? there’s nothing wrong with basc it’s the management as for solving issues when they EVER win a fight with the current lot i place i will rejoin that’s how confident i am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, 8 shot said: Seems to me the Game Dealer holds the cards on this one, if we switch to non toxic across the board they will buy every available Duck, Pheasant and Partridge out there...and at a sensible fair price ? I doubt it, no more game will be brought or sold than there is now Certainly wont be as much sold as there is now, if we do not move away from lead. Its thast old T junction again. Left "sinister" Lead or Right "Dexter"Non tox. WE THAT IS ALL OF US , have the future in our hands chose carefully. 1 minute ago, clangerman said: there’s nothing wrong with basc it’s the management as for solving issues when they EVER win a fight with the current lot i place i will rejoin that’s how confident i am Your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 22 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Certainly wont be as much sold as there is now, if we do not move away from lead. Its thast old T junction again. Left "sinister" Lead or Right "Dexter"Non tox. WE THAT IS ALL OF US , have the future in our hands chose carefully. There is much brought let a loan sold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 39 minutes ago, 8 shot said: There is much brought let a loan sold I guess you meant to say "BOUGHT" & "LONE" if that is that case, may i suggest." YES abroad. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 YES and YES.........all given away around here from the big shoots some even paying dealers to take it away. They're quite happy to do that regardless of what they're shot with 25 minutes ago, lancer425 said: I guess you meant to say "BOUGHT" & "LONE" if that is that case, may i suggest." YES abroad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 if it’s takes me more than two phone calls to get hold of as many free birds as i like there is something wrong lots of complaints of dumped birds wasted birds and NOW to support the lead rubbish they are suddenly worth money the tooth fairy must be real then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, 8 shot said: YES and YES.........all given away around here from the big shoots some even paying dealers to take it away. They're quite happy to do that regardless of what they're shot with The fact is nobody wants Lead shot birds, they do not trust us when we Should have been using lead we were busy breaking the law. They did not like this, We were told to change our ways. We promptly ignored that year on year. and they Now do not trust us on anything. Who can blame them, they do not want lead in the birds they buy, we need to stop using it then shoots can utilise the revenue from the harvest, rather than waste it. All this brought about due to a stubborn reluctance to change the type of shot we use to kill our game birds. WHY? Its ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 24 minutes ago, clangerman said: if it’s takes me more than two phone calls to get hold of as many free birds as i like there is something wrong lots of complaints of dumped birds wasted birds and NOW to support the lead rubbish they are suddenly worth money the tooth fairy must be real then Both LEAD & NON LEAD are the results of the highlighted in that order. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Both LEAD & NON LEAD are the results of the highlighted in that order. . if your telling me the antis are lying about birds being wasted using either type of shot put some buyers names out there we don’t want to miss out on making them look stupid do we Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, clangerman said: if your telling me the antis are lying about birds being wasted using either type of shot put some buyers names out there we don’t want to miss out on making them look stupid do we We need a product first without any LEAD in IT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 no rush when the season starts i will remind you because a friend who owns a large shoot assures me he will still have to give them away and another friend who gets large amounts for free also says it will continue the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, clangerman said: no rush when the season starts i will remind you because a friend who owns a large shoot assures me he will still have to give them away and another friend who gets large amounts for free also says it will continue the same Just look at pigeons i can sell every one i shoot with steel, but my buyer trusts me. I did not tell him i was shooting them with steel but then have him waste his money only to find they were full of lead year on year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, lancer425 said: Just look at pigeons i can sell every one i shoot with steel, but my buyer trusts me. I did not tell him i was shooting them with steel but then have him waste his money only to find they were full of lead year on year. my buyer takes them ok he sells direct to hotels and restaurants he never complains about the shot only a odd mangled one maybe he’s not fussy as he shoots also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Massive myth all this game is going to be worth more if shot with non toxic if these big shoots want to sell them, use non toxic, for your own consumption use what you fancy. I'd like to see a big commercial shoot experiment with this idea and be completely honest and open with the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 HUGE debates in the industry about big bags, and what to do with the game. NOT ONCE … did the lead topic figure in these discussions that I'm aware of … please check the thread on here for example. If there is a material change in the market, surely the orgs who changed the policy should have explained this in a clear and factual way. Change management no. 1 … help people understand the need for change !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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