.223 or .243

[Stealth Stalker]

Ok guys I need your opinions

 

I got my variation through the post last week (I was expecting a visit from my FLO with lots of questions) but they just sent it out with everything I asked for B) .223 for vermin & fox & .243 for fox & deer.

 

I will predominantly be shooting rabbits & foxes & hopefully a few muntjac. There is alot of talk of .223 being passed for the small deer species & my dilemma is whether to go with the .223 or .243. Speaking to people they think the bigger calibre is to much for small deer, causing unnecessary meat damage.

 

I can't see myself shooting the bigger deer, but then again before I joined Pigeon Watch I certainly couldn't see myself getting a firearms licence & owning ferrets, where's it all gonna end

 

Please help a confused Stealth Stalker

[al4x]

theres the dilema and a half. The .243 guarantees you can do deer and foxes and does both very well and you can do all species of deer so Fallows locally won't be a problem, but you won't be able to do vermin. To me a centrefire is overkill for rabbits etc though some winged vermin its pretty handy. Personally I'd leave vermin to rimfire and go .243 then you have all bases and species covered if you decide to shoot deer other than muntjack.

[Browning]

Well done on getting what you asked for SS.

 

.22 C/F for small deer species is here in October. Personally (and this is my opinion) I would stick with the .243 for deer.

Whoever told you .243 was too much for small deer was talking rubbish. I have shot no end of Muntjac and never noticed too much meat damage.

What I did notice, was that they died cleanly and quickly.

As long as you use the correct bullet type (i.e. Not a varmint bullet) you will be fine.

 

I have never owned .223, but have .222, and if ever I am going foxing I always pick up the .243, it is one of the most versatile rounds

in production (again, my opinion).

 

I disagree with the statement made by al4x by the way, about "you can do all species of deer ", personally I always pick

up the .270 when going after Fallow or larger. I think the .243 is pushing the limits on Fallow, with no margin for error.

 

Good luck with it

[Suffolk shooter]

All I can say is you lucky ****** B) Why not just have both and then decide before you go out which quarry species you are going after. Best of both worlds then.

 

SS

[grasshopper]

Gotta be .243 all the way...you never say never.Bit of roe stalking may come your way and then you,ll be thinking ahh *****r B)

 

Excellent fox/deer round with such a variety of bullets and weights available.

 

Better to have more and not use it,than to want more and not have it available

 

GH

[njc110381]

What guns do you have already? Assuming you have a rimmy of some sort, I'd get the .243 because it covers the Deer species better. A .223 is a big Rabbit gun, do you need that sort of range? Also look at the switchable barrel rifles, maybe get a .223 that allows you to easily and cheaply create a .243 later? If you don't plan to shoot Deer much, then rezeroing isn't a problem because you're not going to be changing that often.

[al4x]

I disagree with the statement made by al4x by the way, about "you can do all species of deer ", personally I always pick

up the .270 when going after Fallow or larger. I think the .243 is pushing the limits on Fallow, with no margin for error.

 

sorry about that what I should have said is Legally you can and obviously there are a lot of people who shoot up to Red hinds with them ok a bigger caliber gives you more certainty. It gives you more options than the .223 that will always be restricted to the smaller deer species

[tulkyuk]

243 all the way - i use it for both and the occasional rabbit B) , like others have said its an ideal round - 55grn - 75grn ballistic tips for foxing and 80grn - 100+ grn soft nose for deer ( i've knocked quite a few fallow over with mine ).

[deadeye ive]

Another vote for the .243 .......Ideally you'll need to get in to homeloading to get the best potential Fox round and this calibre comes with a very broad portfolio in that department......For Deer the 105 grn SP factory ammo should be OK there.

 

Your .223 will only collect dust if you get both I feel

[Devon Fox]

Chopped a 222 in for a 243 .......... so its obvious where my vote goes !

 

 

Cracking round,devestating to mr fox!!!! go on,you know it makes sense!

[Stealth Stalker]

And there was me me edgeing towards the .223

 

Cheers guys

 

Synthetic & s/steel Tikka T3 & T8 mod any good?

 

My bro in law lives in the states & comes over on business quite a bit, so what scope should he be bringing me? (As a birthday pressie) B)

 

SS

[deadeye ive]

And there was me me edgeing towards the .223

 

Cheers guys

 

Synthetic & s/steel Tikka T3 & T8 mod any good?

 

My bro in law lives in the states & comes over on business quite a bit, so what scope should he be bringing me? (As a birthday pressie)

 

SS

For the Rifle combo B)

 

As for the scope well it'd have to be a leupold with a standard duplex cross air as it's the states but I'd recommend Europeon Glass like a schmidt and that is really expensive ,in fact alot dearer over the pond .

 

Remember it's not uncommon to struggle focusing on a fine crossair at night.

[Baldrick]

I've ditched the .222 and put in for a variation for a .223, to have a punchier fox/vermin rifle (as I won't be handloading, the running costs of a .22-250 are too steep). I got fed up with the lack of calibres available in left-hand rifles, and the .223 is pretty universal. I'm going to buy a Remmie 700 VSF, I reckon.

 

I've got a 6.5x55 for deer and fox.

 

And Ive, do you rate Leupold over US Optics/Zeiss Conquest? I'm just curious, as I'm going to buy my next scope from the US.

[invector]

I've regularly shot muntjac with a .270, using Norma 130 grains. Meat damage is not excessive if you place the shot correctly. When out shooting fallow I'm hardly going home to get the .243, when I see a muntjac.

[casts_by_fly]

when choosing guns, you have to pick the gun that will suit what you are doing most, not the gun that will do everything. Since you say that you want this gun for fox and rabbits primarily, the 223 is a no brainer. It is easy on the ears and shoulder, easy to shoot well, and easy on the pocket book. It is perfect for fox and rabbits, especially if you handload. It is plenty big enough for muntjack with a well done bullet. Yes a 243 will work too, but it costs 3x as much to shoot and is overkill when it comes to rabbits.

 

The other option as someone else mentioned is a switch barrel gun. That is my choice- TC Encore. Right now I've got a 223 AI barrel. Want to shoot 243? $250 plus some scope mounts/rings.

 

thanks

rick

[Browning]

SS.

 

If your brother in law is willing to carry a scope for you from the US, I would highly recommend looking at

the IOR range of scopes. They are built in Romania, and use Schott lenses (German manufactured). The scopes ara a little

"Agricultural" in that they are as solid as a rock, you feel you could drive a truck over them without damaging the scope.

 

I have a 3-18x 42 Illuminated with 35mm tube, and I have to say the optics quality is amazing. Every bit as good

as my 3.5-10x42 30mm Swarovski for clarity, and better for dusk/dawn light gathering.

 

The US sales arm of IOR is Valdada Website

[Stealth Stalker]

Ok there I was in the gun shop packed wallet in hand with the intention of getting a .243 Tikka T3 synthetic stock / stainless barrel.

 

The very knowledgeable owner of the shop asked me a few questions, what I'd be intending to shoot etc... And he advised me to go with the .223 as its being cleared for CWD & Muntjac in October.

 

He said there's no such thing as an all round foxing / deer rifle, & proceeded to baffle me with ballistics & different grained bullets & I think his sway on things was if you was going out foxing you would have a different grained round to if you was going stalking, thus changing the zero of the rifle?

 

Is he just playing me along, knowing that I'd be back to buy another larger caliber rifle in 6 months time? Saying this we were in the shop chatting for 45 mins & I genuinely believe he had my best interest at heart.

 

What I forgot to mention in my previous post was I am restricted to being accompanied by an experienced stalker for deer. I am intending to do my DSC1 so hopefully that will change, although the Peltman has said he'd have no problem mentoring me.

 

He had a vast armoury of stock & there was a nice new Titan 3 what are these like any good?

 

Unfortunately they had just sold there last Tikka

 

Even more confused Stealth Stalker

[Dunkield]

SS,

 

I would stick with the PW advice so far, and go for the .243

He is right about changing zero for different bullet wieghts, but you shouldn't need to change bullet weight for fox or the smaller deer.

Don't forget you may pick up some Roe stalking and your .223 won't be any use for that this side of the border.

 

It's a big decision, don't rush it.

 

Where abouts was the shop BTW?

[Stealth Stalker]

SS,

 

I would stick with the PW advice so far, and go for the .243

He is right about changing zero for different bullet wieghts, but you shouldn't need to change bullet weight for fox or the smaller deer.

Don't forget you may pick up some Roe stalking and your .223 won't be any use for that this side of the border.

 

It's a big decision, don't rush it.

 

Where abouts was the shop BTW?

 

Pelty's usual gun shop in Barnet, he's alot cheaper than my local

[JohnGalway]

People here on Pigeon Watch aren't trying to sell you anything.

[Browning]

SS.

 

My Tikka T3 in .243, shooting 85gn Sierra gamekings, culled 8 Munties and 47 foxes last year !

 

No change of bullet required!

 

As John Galway says, people on here are not trying to sell yo anything.

[Stealth Stalker]

I appreciate all the advice guys I'm 90% sure I'm going for the .243

[the pelt man]

 

SS

 

If it all gets to much for you take a walk out the back, i'm sure they have a spare room for you and you could shoot the Bunnies through the bars of your padded cell

 

When i got my .243 its was not an option to shoot small Deer with .223 but if i was in your shoes i would still go .243 and keep that Roe/Fallow option.

 

I might of miss lead you, I could say that most of the Monkeys i've shot have not had as much meat damage as the one you took the other week so don't be to put of by that.

Even though there is a price diff in ammo between .223 & .243 you are not going to be spraying bullets around all the time so cost isn't realy a factor, as it will take a lot of shoots to mount up to the same as buying 2 rifles if you later go for a .308 for Fallow and Reds. that will add up to another £1000 quid with it dressed and the rest.

 

PELTMAN

[deadeye ive]

Is he just playing me along, knowing that I'd be back to buy another larger caliber rifle in 6 months time? Saying this we were in the shop chatting for 45 mins & I genuinely believe he had my best interest at heart.

 

 

 

Even more confused Stealth Stalker

I would say he has got your interest at heart but not fully aware of your situation.The thing is a .223 @1250 ft lbs doing 3250 FPS is just as lethal as .243 @2000 ftlbs doing 3500 fps .No way is shooting a smaller calibre going to be more forgiving but such is the choice of ammo in .243 that there is a very high chance you can develop a small round for fox and the smaller Deer species .Let's face it you'll either shooting one or the other and it's only a matter of noting the clicks moved on scope adjustment when shooting the heavier SP round .

[Dougy]

SS.

 

If your brother in law is willing to carry a scope for you from the US, I would highly recommend looking at

the IOR range of scopes. They are built in Romania, and use Schott lenses (German manufactured). The scopes ara a little

"Agricultural" in that they are as solid as a rock, you feel you could drive a truck over them without damaging the scope.

 

I have a 3-18x 42 Illuminated with 35mm tube, and I have to say the optics quality is amazing. Every bit as good

as my 3.5-10x42 30mm Swarovski for clarity, and better for dusk/dawn light gathering.

 

The US sales arm of IOR is Valdada Website

 

I have to agree with you on the quality of scopes here. i have the 4-14x50 ill mp8. its outstanding clarity and light gathering capabilities are extremley good