FAC.177

[villaman]

Any point in FAC.177 ?

personal I can’t see no advantage , in fact disadvantage over .22 &.25 and have read that .25 is the ultimate cal for FAC air with speed , weight & size . 

is that why not many have FAC .177 . I only know one person who swear by .177 FAC I think he might be on this forum 😁

what are your thoughts 

[Ultrastu]

Is that me ? .😘

Yeah .I love it .it's by far my fave of the  3 cals I own .

I can basically  use where I use my sub 12s .

but its reach and ability far exceeds the sub 12s . And I swear by the 8.4s jsb  as the pellet of choice  .

At 40 yds my scorp is doing 11.5 fpe  at 80 yds it's doing what my sub 12 is doing at 40 yds .I can take quarry out to 70 yds as the energy and accuracy  are there . And almost aim bang on out to 50 yds .

It's a very useful tool and would certainly  be the last of the 3 to be sold .

Basically  it gives you all the advantages  of the sub 12 (in terms of shooting angles ) 

Doesn't gulp air  and the trajectory  of the bigger cals . With enough energy to get the job done .

I'm surprised it's not more popular  ..

Edited May 19, 2022 by Ultrastu

[Ultrastu]

To be fair  IF I was to change my gun or be getting my first fac .177  now .

I would probably go with a bullpup (fx most likely)  to get a bigger air supply and longer barrel .this could mean its possible to use the new slugs more effectively. I feel they need at least 700 fps impact velocity on quarry to expand sufficiently . Meaning a 1000 + fps muzzle velocity is required .to get this your gonna need air and barrel length . I've pushed slugs at up to 900 fps which will expand at 30 yds but not really enough at 50 +  . They need the speed to see the advantages  (and a  very good reg and lots of tuning )  out side of this a pellet is better imo.

 

[villaman]

So why is it not that popular Stu , you are the only person I know of owning one . I have asked at several clubs to see if anyone is shooting one , get a vary strange look when I asked 😁

[Ultrastu]

For the same reason most people buy a 12b over a 20 . 

They think ooh .a 12b is soo powerful and  will kill stuff miles away .

But in reality the 20 will do virtually every thing a 12 b will do . Its just you can't stuff 45 grm loads into a 20b .not that any body ever does stuff 45 grms into a 12 b but for some reason they think they may do one day .

The 20b will do every thing they need  a shot gun to do .but they still buy a 12.

I think  its an ego thing .?  . I'm secure  enough not to feel like I need to shoot a howitzer . I will if its the right tool for the job but when the job can be done by a tool that is better suited I choose that. 

 

I'm interested in the  disadvantages you see in .177 fac .what do you think they are .?

Watch Andy of aar .on utube .

He has a bsa r10 .177 fac and clearly loves it . I think when people do have them they really love it .  Or they shoot silly heavy solid pellets  and wonder why it's inaccurate and over penetrates every thing .and give up on it .

Where as just use normal pellets and it all makes sense . 

You considering one mitch .

[villaman]

I must admit love shooting 177 sub 12 @ 810  fps with 7.9 gr JSB express . Now it’s got me thinking about one in FAC  , but I can’t see any advantage over the other two Cals at the moment 

I shoot both .22 & .25 at 25 -100+ yards and wonder where 177would fit in 

[Ultrastu]

It depends on your quarry and location .

If your shooting rabbits over large fields  .then the .25 will definitely  out perform the .177 If your shooting  squirrels in woods then the .177 will out perform the .25 .

If your shooting round barns then the .177 wins .if your after rabbits and horses are in the paddock or sheep or there green houses about then the .177 wins .

Really the. 25 is restricted to ideal locations and ground shots .the .177 isn't. 

And if your shooting .22 slugs they should be more restricted  than .25 pellet. As they can ricochet and travel very far .

 

If my shoot was up on the Yorkshire moors the .25 cal would be my first choice for fac air .but then again up there I'd probably  go cf .for most my quarry  as the ranges would be long with plenty of great backstops  and wind all the time .

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, villaman said:

I must admit love shooting 177 sub 12 @ 810  fps with 7.9 gr JSB express . Now it’s got me thinking about one in FAC  , but I can’t see any advantage over the other two Cals at the moment 

I shoot both .22 & .25 at 25 -100+ yards and wonder where 177would fit in 

This topic comes up quite frequently on Agf, the usual reason given for it being no good is there's not enough power compared with 22 & 25, but like Stu says out to 70 yards and still doing 12ft/lb what's not to like.

And imagine those Zan slugs doing 900fps 😳😳😳

[Ultrastu]

Oh another plus for .177 fac  .

It uses less air than the equivalent. 22 or .25 for the same speed and trajectory  .

Villa man  - it begs the question  why do you have a .22  if the 25 cal is better .? What's the point of 30 fpe when you have 50 + 

 

[sam triple]

And I always thought .20 was the optimum calibre 🤔

[oowee]

22 minutes ago, sam triple said:

And I always thought .20 was the optimum calibre 🤔

😀

To me the 1.77 not only has very little extra energy in FAC but it's also so very fiddly to mess with in the dark. Far easier to use the larger cals and you get greater surety in a breeze. No need to use anything other than a sub 12 around barns. Expansion is pretty much a worthless myth unless I am shooting with well over 50 ftlbs and even then I probably don't need it, or would choose a rifle cartridge.

14 hours ago, villaman said:

Any point in FAC.177 ?

personal I can’t see no advantage , in fact disadvantage over .22 &.25 and have read that .25 is the ultimate cal for FAC air with speed , weight & size . 

is that why not many have FAC .177 . I only know one person who swear by .177 FAC I think he might be on this forum 😁

what are your thoughts 

Agree completely its a minority choice. 

[Ultrastu]

It's not energy as such  that drives expansion but velocity .

Presuming that you have a projectile designed to expand .

900 fps with a  30 grn .25 cal 

Won't expand as much as a 900 fps 8 grn .177 .

The .177 is much more fragile than the big lump of the .25 cal 

 

[222mark]

Can't see any point at all. Accuracy is what kills not velocity and accuracy is lost  with increased velocity. A sub 12ftlb air rifle will kill a rabbit at 90+ yards hit in the right place.

[Mice!]

38 minutes ago, 222mark said:

Can't see any point at all. Accuracy is what kills not velocity and accuracy is lost  with increased velocity. A sub 12ftlb air rifle will kill a rabbit at 90+ yards hit in the right place.

What makes you think that? If it was right then why would anyone shoot fac air rifles?

@Ultrastu did some good posts a while back on 177 fac, the increase in velocity is what gives you accuracy at range

[Ultrastu]

An increase in velocity can keep the external weather influences at bay for longer .improving long range accuracy  .

My higher powered guns certainly hold better groups more consistently  at longer range than the lower powered ones .

Of which I've plenty to play with .

[villaman]

Some interesting points to take account of . I do shoot .22 FAC more than any other gun running at 950 fps with ZAN 21 gr slugs . Might look into 177 FAC a bit more , specially for a few squirrel & wood  permission’s, 9 hole golf course / small sporting centre I have , but can’t complain with kill rate with .177 sub 12

[Cornish lad]

Looking for some input from you guys who are using these slugs now , I am shooting a airarms 510 fac in .22 I think it’s doing 34ftbs on full power .would that be enough pressure to shoot slugs ?and what weight slug would you recommend??

[Mice!]

14 hours ago, villaman said:

but can’t complain with kill rate with .177 sub 12

Guess it would just give you a bit more range, and Whack if you were pushing a slug in fac, giving body shot options if needed, but less power than the bigger calibres so the projectile isn't traveling as far.

It's a shame you can't have a mess with a 177 in fac and just put it back to sub 12, just to see how you get on.

[villaman]

16 hours ago, Cornish lad said:

Looking for some input from you guys who are using these slugs now , I am shooting a airarms 510 fac in .22 I think it’s doing 34ftbs on full power .would that be enough pressure to shoot slugs ?and what weight slug would you recommend??

Slugs will work from 880 fps if your gun is set up . I use either H&N 21 gr 218 or ZAN 21 gr 217 , but find  ZAN slugs deform more on impact . Both accurate at 100+ yards 

[Mice!]

On 20/05/2022 at 20:27, Cornish lad said:

Looking for some input from you guys who are using these slugs now , I am shooting a airarms 510 fac in .22 I think it’s doing 34ftbs on full power .would that be enough pressure to shoot slugs ?and what weight slug would you recommend??

might be worth a look, see how they shoot, but you often need a few to lead the barrel in before you get the accuracy.