wymberley Posted May 9, 2023 Report Share Posted May 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, Stonepark said: Looking at the cartridge loaded, I suspect more like 800ftsec which is what Cheddites 24g version goes out at. My 21g home loads with 13.5gr of powder come up over the brass with a couple of mm to the OPC, and go out supersonic on warms days and subsonic on cold days (1070ftsec) whilst the Cheddite\Bornaghi 24g "wad" bottom sits below the brass and has to propel another 3g and stay under pressure. Flippin' 'eck, make that 7 yards. What's the point in that - I could throw them faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 9, 2023 Report Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, wymberley said: Flippin' 'eck, make that 7 yards. What's the point in that - I could throw them faster. Yeah, right. Methinks you exaggerate somewhat! Off the top of my head it’s still travelling at around 400 mph. I wouldn’t want it hitting me, whatever size shot it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humperdingle Posted May 9, 2023 Report Share Posted May 9, 2023 The velocity of a baseball thrown by an untrained (in baseball) individual, is 50-60mph. I’d rather have a baseball chucked at me from 10 yards than a .410 load 😂 Preferably neither 😵 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 12 hours ago, London Best said: Yeah, right. Methinks you exaggerate somewhat! Off the top of my head it’s still travelling at around 400 mph. I wouldn’t want it hitting me, whatever size shot it is. Too true. Being of light hearted intent I knew I should have added a smiley. The 7 yards is valid though and equates to 492 mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 50 minutes ago, wymberley said: Too true. Being of light hearted intent I knew I should have added a smiley. The 7 yards is valid though and equates to 492 mph. Seven yards is valid for what? If you mean to be effective on game I think you need a reality check. 24 grams of 7 1/2 shot would blow any game bird to pieces at that range even with a low velocity charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 16 hours ago, wymberley said: at the recognised level to kill a cock pheasant at Oh dear. I simply used the generally accepted energy figure but which we know from previous posts which is one with which you do not agree. Also, the shot size in question is clearly marked as 7 for what it's worth. Of course at that range it would be totally destructive and it never hurts to repeat the old mantra, 'give it lore'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 All this just shows how ridiculous the “generally accepted “ lethal energy level really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 7 hours ago, London Best said: Seven yards is valid for what? If you mean to be effective on game I think you need a reality check. 24 grams of 7 1/2 shot would blow any game bird to pieces at that range even with a low velocity charge. Yes but judging the birds I have cleaned this year from my days out on driven birds that must be the distance some idiots are shooting them at.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Walker570 said: Yes but judging the birds I have cleaned this year from my days out on driven birds that must be the distance some idiots are shooting them at.. Some idiots think you need heavy loads of big shot to shoot game. Some people even think you need choked barrels to shoot driven game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 Back in the 70s we did some checks pon various loads in our issue pumpers at short range... round about eh 7trds mentioned as does not matter and we found that even a load of #7s at that range had a very similar effect on pig carcases as did rifled slug, in fact once the hit was made the shot destroyed far more tissue. This was with normal game cartridges with plaswads. The one benfit was rgar once out at longer ranges the shot becam,e less lethal but the rifle slug kep on going. Take it from me I would not have liked to be one of those pigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 18 minutes ago, Walker570 said: Back in the 70s we did some checks pon various loads in our issue pumpers at short range... round about eh 7trds mentioned as does not matter and we found that even a load of #7s at that range had a very similar effect on pig carcases as did rifled slug, in fact once the hit was made the shot destroyed far more tissue. This was with normal game cartridges with plaswads. The one benfit was rgar once out at longer ranges the shot becam,e less lethal but the rifle slug kep on going. Take it from me I would not have liked to be one of those pigs. Quite agree. One of the best things you can show a new shot gunner is to shoot a normal cartridge at a cabbage a few yards away to demonstrate what can happen to someone’s head if not careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 And then repeat at 20 and 40 yds and see the massive difference.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 57 minutes ago, London Best said: Some idiots think you need heavy loads of big shot to shoot game. Some people even think you need choked barrels to shoot driven game! Yep, your first point is valid as such loads are more often than not self defeating. But doesn't your second depend upon range? A little choke is still choke. And, of course, who you believe regarding the number of pellets required with every shot as opposed to on average in order to achieve an on target clean kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted May 10, 2023 Report Share Posted May 10, 2023 Correct and that is why for 410s in particular I suggest checking various chokes AND shells on a pattern plate .... some old wall paper on a piece of ply works fine. I also put a thck piece of cardboard under the paper to see what penetration I get. A normal days driven will produce birds from 25 to 45yrds, a walked up day shots will more likelybe 20-25yrds on average so checking your guns pattern at 30-35yrds will give you confidence the gun is capable and it is then up to you. Just bear in mind that a 30 inch pattern at 35yrds will only give you about an 18 inch pattern at 20yrds maybe a bit less.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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