Additional resources for firearms licensing in Cumbria following BASC meeting

[HantsRob]

10 minutes ago, eightlittlebits said:

Not direct figures from the force but people on a Hampshire clay shooting group who have managed to get a grant in the last year all seem to be saying it was ~12 months from application, not the 10 months quoted in that video.

Even at 10 months, I'd have hoped that would be a priority to the voice of shooting! Hence my question. Crazy.

[eightlittlebits]

8 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

Even at 10 months, I'd have hoped that would be a priority to the voice of shooting! Hence my question. Crazy.

Quite. I applied Sept 2023 and had hoped to nearly be there by now, at the time I applied I was expecting ~8 months based on what others had said. Heard nothing at all yet.

[Conor O'Gorman]

5 hours ago, HantsRob said:

As a definable metric, what is the threshold to make a county force become a priority?

Days for new grant? Days for renewal? Who is moaning the most? 

I'd have hoped all under performing forces would be a priority, hence the curiosity to how this is defined.

Top 10 forces to follow-up with post-election based on backlogs - was this not covered in another thread with you?

[HantsRob]

12 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Top 10 forces to follow-up with post-election based on backlogs - was this not covered in another thread with you?

I guess without the data to know the waiting times for the forces it's hard to know where any force stands. I believe you are waiting for data on backlogs, so until you have this data, how can you process the top 10? Or are you using data that is years old?

I'm not sure we covered this element. I think it's great BASC is chasing any county force as that will help shooters somewhere in the country, just the metrics don't seem clear.

[Conor O'Gorman]

14 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

I guess without the data to know the waiting times for the forces it's hard to know where any force stands. I believe you are waiting for data on backlogs, so until you have this data, how can you process the top 10? Or are you using data that is years old?

I'm not sure we covered this element. I think it's great BASC is chasing any county force as that will help shooters somewhere in the country, just the metrics don't seem clear.

I don't know. BASC is following up with all forces - but are starting with a top 10 - presume that's based on feedback from our firearms officers - in any case I have reported back the updates above on timelines for Hampshire. All sources of information are valuable.

[HantsRob]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I don't know. BASC is following up with all forces - but are starting with a top 10 - presume that's based on feedback from our firearms officers - in any case I have reported back the updates above on timelines for Hampshire. All sources of information are valuable.

I appreciate the honesty on this. I look forward to hearing a good news story or update on this, as I am sure many others are also. Thankyou for the reply.

[ratchers]

I might try for a FAC air gun now as before they weren't even processing applications.

[Conor O'Gorman]

3 hours ago, ratchers said:

I might try for a FAC air gun now as before they weren't even processing applications.

Go for it, and hope it goes well for you.

[eightlittlebits]

On 17/05/2024 at 09:28, Conor O'Gorman said:

I don't know. BASC is following up with all forces - but are starting with a top 10 - presume that's based on feedback from our firearms officers - in any case I have reported back the updates above on timelines for Hampshire. All sources of information are valuable.

Email just received from Hants. licensing, they're now quoting 12 months themselves.

Quote

We are writing in relation to your application for a Shotgun or Firearm Certificate.

We are sorry that we have not yet been able to complete your application for the grant of a licence under the Firearms Act, and I fully understand that this is not acceptable to you.  We are actively working with the Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) and the wider Force to address our staffing levels and improve our performance including our grant application times.

With public safety in mind, we continue to prioritise our existing certificate holders to ensure they do not come into unlawful possession. If you applied for a new certificate after the expiry of a previous certificate, these applications are processed in the same way as a Grant, or first time, application. We are fulfilling our obligation to process renewal applications prior to the expiry date and this is having an impact on the granting of new licences, which includes your application.  I would ask you to please be patient for a while longer, because at this time I am unable to give you a time scale for resolution of your application, however to manage your expectations our current turnaround times are around 12 months from date of submission.

We are also prioritising new applications for those who require a certificate for professional (where this is your primary source of income), vocational or livelihood purposes; if you fit this criteria and have not already told us, please let us know with supporting documentation.

We kindly ask that you do not contact us in reply to this email, unless you wish to withdraw your application (see below), however please be assured that we will be in touch as your application progresses.

If you no longer wish to progress your application please notify us without delay and we will arrange a full refund of the fee.

Thank you for your continued patience as we progress your application.

I find the "if you think we're taking too long and would like to conveniently withdraw your application let us know" line interesting.

Using the delays as a tactic to discourage people from applying? Doesn't bode well for much hope of improvement if they see the delays as achieving a goal.

[Conor O'Gorman]

1 hour ago, eightlittlebits said:

Email just received from Hants. licensing, they're now quoting 12 months themselves.

I find the "if you think we're taking too long and would like to conveniently withdraw your application let us know" line interesting.

Using the delays as a tactic to discourage people from applying? Doesn't bode well for much hope of improvement if they see the delays as achieving a goal.

Thanks I will pass on the text of that email from Hants to our firearms team.

[CumbrianWildfowler]

I have grown beyond exasperated by this fiasco. It sounded good when the headlines said that PCC Johnson committed to remove the back log by 22nd July. He has been replaced by Labour's PCC Allen. My letter/snottogram to his office asking if he shared his predecessor's commitment to removing the backlog was met with the usual vanilla auto response - we will 'endeavour' ro respond within 28 days. Good grief. You could train a battery chicken to write that response, if it isn't AI. On very rare occasions I am ashamed to be Cumbrian and this is one of them. 15 months and counting waiting for a grant of a SGC. Moral of the story, don't ever let your SGC lapse in this county. It's as if they just left a post it note, Gordon Brown style,  to the cleaner to sort all future applications!  An absolute shower.

[ShootingEgg]

AVS currently running 3 months for variations. 

Focussing on renewals I think.

[Gordon R]

A lad I shoot with brought a couple of mates to have a go at clay shooting. They were keen and in fairness quite decent shots. They applied to get medical records via Medcert about three months ago. One of the lads is having a visit from the FEO this week. This is in Greater Manchester, who seem to be on top of applications. Always had great service from them and this comes as no surprise.

[robmiller]

Submitted FAC and SGC licence renewal to Cumbria about 3 weeks ago. Visit by officer on Monday, licence landed through letterbox this morning. Can’t complain at all, including new additions to certificate.

Cumbria must be getting something right now 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Hopefully BASC will update and publish their "League Table" of Firearms Licensing Departments and Cumbria and Manchester should be up at the top.

 

I notified Beds, Cambs and Herts Licensing of a change of address at the start of May, I am still awaiting an updated SGC, they have said it is on its way, but so is Christmas.

 

Someone badly needs to kick these departments in to shape, they do not have Covid as an excuse any more.

 

Oh and when you telephone the department, one of the messages is "If you are waiting for a renewal and don't have an extension the onus is on you to store your weapons safely at an RFD at your expense."

How are they getting away with such ineptitude?

[eightlittlebits]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Hopefully BASC will update and publish their "League Table" of Firearms Licensing Departments and Cumbria and Manchester should be up at the top.

"Later this year" was the response at the beginning of May. 

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I notified Beds, Cambs and Herts Licensing of a change of address at the start of May, I am still awaiting an updated SGC, they have said it is on its way, but so is Christmas.

Oh and when you telephone the department, one of the messages is "If you are waiting for a renewal and don't have an extension the onus is on you to store your weapons safely at an RFD at your expense."

Waiting on a grant since Sept 23 here in Hampshire.

Yours has a published phone number for the department? I can't see that Hants publish one any more, just the online contact form. 

I also noted that Hants are not on the list of forces attending the Game Fair; despite being much closer than a number of those that are attending. I guess they don't want the stick/difficult questions.

Edited July 12 by eightlittlebits

[TIGHTCHOKE]

49 minutes ago, eightlittlebits said:

"Later this year" was the response at the beginning of May. 

Waiting on a grant since Sept 23 here in Hampshire.

Yours has a published phone number for the department? I can't see that Hants publish one any more, just the online contact form. 

I also noted that Hants are not on the list of forces attending the Game Fair; despite being much closer than a number of those that are attending. I guess they don't want the stick/difficult questions.

It takes some finding.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Well, I have just received the requested amended SGC following the house move.

 

But unfortunately it did not reflect the weapons I had sold and notified the department about so I have requested another reprint to reflect this.

[HantsRob]

2 hours ago, eightlittlebits said:

Yours has a published phone number for the department? I can't see that Hants publish one any more, just the online contact form. 

02380 478104 - 10am-noon.

That number was valid in November 2021.

Alternatively via the main switchboard - 01962 841 534

[Cyd]

On 12/07/2024 at 10:17, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Well, I have just received the requested amended SGC following the house move.

At least that's reassuring. I saw advertisements for job openings in the Beds, Cambs, and Herts departments and was worried there might not be enough staff to handle everything. I'm still unsure if it's even possible to get a new license in this county. It seems like it might be quicker to move to Lincolnshire temporarily, get the license there, and then come back to Cambridge...

[harkom]

On 16/05/2024 at 15:44, HantsRob said:

Even at 10 months, I'd have hoped that would be a priority to the voice of shooting! Hence my question. Crazy.

Imagine that you submitted an application for a driving licence and were informed that - a) - it will take as long as the issuing department like  

and

b)  --   that you have to provide a GP certificate for your suitability to drive a car ( obviously excluding relevant existing medical disorders ).

c) -- and to take extend that line of thought - (hmmmmm) - a TV licence....🤣🤔

[Conor O'Gorman]

An update from Cumbria Police: 

Cumbria police clears non-complex firearm licensing backlog | The Westmorland Gazette

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

That is good news, so what was the reason and why can't all the other authorities Firearms Licensing Teams get their act together?

[Gordon R]

Excellent news - well done Cumbria.

[Conor O'Gorman]

4 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

That is good news, so what was the reason and why can't all the other authorities Firearms Licensing Teams get their act together?

Some FLDs are doing well, some are not. In this case a force that was not doing well invested more resources in its FLD to help improve the situation. This took a lot of engagement from BASC staff (for over 2 years if I recall correctly), working with the PCC and CC offices where there were people willing to listen and act in the force. There is still follow-up to come for this force and more information is in the update below:

https://basc.org.uk/bascs-work-with-cumbria-police-leads-to-reduction-in-backlog/

And BASC is working with other forces to the same end. What really helps is input from certificate holders to the PCC office - they will listen if enough of us get involved. Hence the BASC campaign during PCC elections, that is making a difference. Also, the more people that are members of BASC the more resources we have to encourage improvements for all - members or not. There are circa 700,000 cert holders across the UK of which circa 150,000 are BASC members.