billsy Posted January 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 i shoot on mod land ,the people you need to speak to are defence estates hello mate i take it your on humphries or quetta somewhere if so the people who may know will be the lot down the bottom of goverment road in aldershot near the driving test place , i forget the name of the place its where they do the gocarts. thats the place where all the housings was controlled when we were doing the referbs down quetta and wakefords a few years back. i tried to et shooting right for the queen elizibeth barracks some time back but never got anywhere so i wish you better luck than me brain wave i think it modern housing that run it all now. anyway hope this helps lee Yes mate I live on humphries and have tried mhs with no luck. Now waiting to see if anybody at defence estates replies to my emails and letters. QE2 barracks has now been sold to taylor woodrow homes (which again I am tearing what little hair I have out, finding the right person in the company to grant permission). The old transport depot opposite it is still owned by the mod I believe and has a un used 25 mtr range at the back outside the perimiter which is ideal for plinking and zeroing before moving in to the camp for some bunny bashing! Also all the woodland and fields behind the camp are un used by the mod. If only I could get permission! Cheers for all your replies and help with advice on drug dealing security gaurds , their cars etc LOL Will let you all know if I ever succeed whilst going even balder trying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleaner4hire Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 At the moment i mostly shoot on MOD property - although it certainly helps being on the inside. Permission will vary massively between the different areas and forces. For example i had to provide a statement of intent and risk assessment for one camp, whereas another with a golf course was 'yeah no worries'. As has been mentioned Defence Estates (DE) are ultimately responsible for the land, however if the land is occupied by a unit or regt then there are people who are authorised to grant access - sometimes this is an easier route to follow. If you have a phone number for the relevant DE then i would suggest ringing them would be more useful - these are civil servants we're talking about here!!! Most of the time the MOD are appreciative of the help tbh - some camps pay extortionate rates for controllers to trap rabbits etc. Oh and if you get caught trespassing on MOD property with a weapon you will get in trouble - personally if i caught anyone unauthorised shooting i would make sure the police were involved. A Station i shot over previously had its FAC permission revoked by the Station Commander after a near miss involving a stupid civilian contractor. We dont need the agro on top of all the other bulls*** we have to put up with - plus how do you know its safe - if somebody else has had the same idea..... If you need any more info pm me and ill try my best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabid bunny Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Private or not, TRESPASS covers the unathorized entry upon land to which you are not granted access - so unless you have permission to be on MOD land, you are trespassing. if you happen to be armed when trespassing, you become and armed trespasser. I agree with what you say, unless the MOD land in question has "public access". A lot of MOD land is left open to the public, in these cases, I think armed trespass will not apply. It would be more likely to be treated as a "public place" instead and in that case you only need to show "good reason". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Rabid Bunny, Do you shoot on MOD land without permission? Would you encourage people to attempt it? Do you feel a couple of rabbits is worth losing an FAC/SGC for? If your answer to any of the above is "yes" then you are a fool and are not fit to carry a gun. If the answer is "no" then why do you keep posting these statements and what are you hoping to achieve from them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleabag Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Rabid Bunny, Do you shoot on MOD land without permission? Would you encourage people to attempt it? Do you feel a couple of rabbits is worth losing an FAC/SGC for? If your answer to any of the above is "yes" then you are a fool and are not fit to carry a gun. If the answer is "no" then why do you keep posting these statements and what are you hoping to achieve from them? Paulos, Don't know about rabid bunny, sounds more like raving bonkers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabid bunny Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) Rabid Bunny, Do you shoot on MOD land without permission? Would you encourage people to attempt it? Do you feel a couple of rabbits is worth losing an FAC/SGC for? If your answer to any of the above is "yes" then you are a fool and are not fit to carry a gun. If the answer is "no" then why do you keep posting these statements and what are you hoping to achieve from them? Firstly, I shoot rabits with a sub 12 ft/lb air rifle on MOD land which has public access, (which makes it a public place) with out permission. In my opinion, the law regarding carrying firearms in public places do not apply if I can show good reason for being there. The onous is on me to show good reason and I think shooting rabits is good reason. Secondly, I do not encourage people to shoot where they have no permission, even though there is no law that states "you can only shoot where you have permission". Thirdly, I make these "statements" when someone else says things like "MOD land is private property", or other incorrect things like "you can only buy firearms "face to face" etc. Finally, I am no fool and I have been shooting for over twenty years and fit to handle an air rifle safely. I like to know my rights within the law and take advantage of the "grey areas" to suit me. My decision. Edited January 17, 2008 by rabid bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA Shaun Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) Firstly, I shoot rabits with a sub 12 ft/lb air rifle on MOD land which has public access, (which makes it a public place) with out permission Access means just that, you can use it to access a route to somewhere, not to use at your disposal, this post is crazy! A high street is a public place, it has ferals, I take it your not popping them off on your way to Tescos I re-enforce from BASC: "Always ensure that you are authorised by the landowner or person with the sporting rights to shoot where you intend to, and that you know precisely where the boundaries are. Get permission in writing, if possible, to remove any doubt. Whenever you are in a public place you should carry the rifle in a gun cover and always ensure that it is unloaded and not cocked." "The law makes no distinction between air rifles and more powerful guns for which you need a licence – they are all classed as firearms. This means that any offence you commit can carry a very heavy penalty – and there are at least 38 different offences. Following this code will help you to keep on the right side of the law, but, if you have any doubt, seek advice from BASC or your local police firearms licensing department" Edited January 17, 2008 by BSA Shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabid bunny Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) Firstly, I shoot rabits with a sub 12 ft/lb air rifle on MOD land which has public access, (which makes it a public place) with out permission Access means just that, you can use it to access a route to somewhere, not to use at your disposal. "public access" makes it a public place. Check your law. Edited January 17, 2008 by rabid bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabid bunny Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 [A high street is a public place, it has ferals, I take it your not popping them off on your way to Tescos obviously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA Shaun Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 "public access" makes it a public place. Check your law. "Whenever you are in a public place you should carry the rifle in a gun cover and always ensure that it is unloaded and not cocked." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabid bunny Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) "public access" makes it a public place. Check your law. "Whenever you are in a public place you should carry the rifle in a gun cover and always ensure that it is unloaded and not cocked." I think that only applies to under 17 year olds. Or it could be 18 year olds now. And notice you said "should". In any case, I presume you lifted this from the BASC "codes of practice". That is not law. And for those synical enough, I am not suggesting you ignore the BASC codes of practice. Edited January 17, 2008 by rabid bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA Shaun Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) No, its quite clearly under the where you can shoot section. "It is an offence under Section 19 of the Firearms Act 1968 for anyone without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to have with him in a public place a loaded shotgun or loaded air weapon or any other firearm, (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm. In this legislation the main point to note is without lawful authority: if someone has ownership or lease of sporting rights over a public place, that person has a reasonable excuse to be shooting; if these rights are not obtained, then a breach of this Act is made." Now that's knowing your law Edited January 17, 2008 by BSA Shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabid bunny Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) No, its quite clearly under the where you can shoot section. "It is an offence under Section 19 of the Firearms Act 1968 for anyone without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to have with him in a public place a loaded shotgun or loaded air weapon or any other firearm, (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm. In this legislation the main point to note is without lawful authority: if someone has ownership or lease of sporting rights over a public place, that person has a reasonable excuse to be shooting; if these rights are not obtained, then a breach of this Act is made." Now that's knowing your law Even the above quote contradicts itself. loaded shotgun or loaded air weapon then (whether loaded or not) Like you first stated, lawful authority or reasonable excuse, I am saying I have reasonable excuse ( or good reason). Your main point to note is your interpretation. My reasonable excuse is my interpretation. So untill I get caught and test this in court, we may not know for sure what a judge will think "reasonable excuse" is. In the meantime, I intend to continue with my shooting. If others disagree, then it's their choice to not shoot. I just hate it when "codes of practice" restrict my shooting. Edited January 17, 2008 by rabid bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveieP Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Somehow I don't think "I was shooting" makes out a defence of "reasonable excuse" Reasonable excuse might include transporting the gun from one place to another, or having confiscated it from some lawbreaking miscreant you're on your way to hand it in at a police station. I don't think there is much mileage in a defence of "I was using it to shoot stuff". I think the law is clear, if it's a public place = no shooting If it's a private place you need the owners consent or it becomes an armed trespass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA Shaun Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 States right here what a reasonable excuse is: "if someone has ownership or lease of sporting rights over a public place, that person has a reasonable excuse to be shooting; if these rights are not obtained, then a breach of this Act is made." And the other part is saying a loaded shotty or air weapon and a firearm whether loaded or not. You are breaking the law, its plain to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 you're going to get banged up mate, you can't just shoot rabbits on land you deem public land simple. Keep on doing it but don't be surprised when an ARV turns up and gives you hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 I was stationed at RAF Digby in 2000 and a chap was arrested and done for armed trespass for wandering onto the antenna field (which was unfenced) with an airgun and shooting rabbits without permission (I know this because I was on guard at the time and helped detain him). He gave much the same reasons as rabid bunny (ie it is public access land), but got nicked and prosecuted. I'd pack it in if I were you, it is one thing to argue the law with other shooters on here, but quite another to find out too late (in court for example) that it is your interpretation which was flawed! ZB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Chaps, Rabid Bunny loves a troll and in fairness they are always entertaining threads. If RB thinks he can wander onto MOD land with an airgun, shotgun, loaded, unloaded, slipped or unslipped and or start shooting stuff without any form of permission written or otherwise then that's hunky dory with me. Hell, I'll give him a lift down there just so I could watch what would happen next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 i cant think of a good reason to have a firearm in a public place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabid bunny Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 I was stationed at RAF Digby in 2000 and a chap was arrested and done for armed trespass for wandering onto the antenna field (which was unfenced) with an airgun and shooting rabbits without permission (I know this because I was on guard at the time and helped detain him). He gave much the same reasons as rabid bunny (ie it is public access land), but got nicked and prosecuted. I'd pack it in if I were you, it is one thing to argue the law with other shooters on here, but quite another to find out too late (in court for example) that it is your interpretation which was flawed! ZB ZB, did this chap plead not guilty and fight it in court and have a Judge rule against him? or did he just plead guilty and give in to the police state ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyboy Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 rabid bunny is your black dog blacker than everybodys black dog ? listern to people we have enough hassle as it without new air gunners crossing the grey areas or old air gunners thinking they have missed something. mod property is the govenment . ////cross them and you will lose . mod. land . gun. trespass. adds up to big trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 I was stationed at RAF Digby in 2000 and a chap was arrested and done for armed trespass for wandering onto the antenna field (which was unfenced) with an airgun and shooting rabbits without permission (I know this because I was on guard at the time and helped detain him). He gave much the same reasons as rabid bunny (ie it is public access land), but got nicked and prosecuted. I'd pack it in if I were you, it is one thing to argue the law with other shooters on here, but quite another to find out too late (in court for example) that it is your interpretation which was flawed! ZB ZB, did this chap plead not guilty and fight it in court and have a Judge rule against him? or did he just plead guilty and give in to the police state ? Yes, he pleaded not guilty and the guard commander from that night had to give evidence against him. I dont remember what the punishment was (fined quite a bit I think) but I do remember he had his ticket revoked and was disqualified from keeping guns. ZB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 A public place means any highway or place or premises to which, at the material time, the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) Rabid Bunny, Do you shoot on MOD land without permission? Would you encourage people to attempt it? Do you feel a couple of rabbits is worth losing an FAC/SGC for? If your answer to any of the above is "yes" then you are a fool and are not fit to carry a gun. If the answer is "no" then why do you keep posting these statements and what are you hoping to achieve from them? Firstly, I shoot rabits with a sub 12 ft/lb air rifle on MOD land which has public access, (which makes it a public place) with out permission. In my opinion, the law regarding carrying firearms in public places do not apply if I can show good reason for being there. The onous is on me to show good reason and I think shooting rabits is good reason. Secondly, I do not encourage people to shoot where they have no permission, even though there is no law that states "you can only shoot where you have permission". Thirdly, I make these "statements" when someone else says things like "MOD land is private property", or other incorrect things like "you can only buy firearms "face to face" etc. Finally, I am no fool and I have been shooting for over twenty years and fit to handle an air rifle safely. I like to know my rights within the law and take advantage of the "grey areas" to suit me. My decision. http://romsey.archant.net/airgun/changes/basa.html You can only take your airgun onto land over which you have permission to shoot, regardless of whether or not you intend to shoot it. If you trespass with your airgun, you are committing an offence of ‘armed trespass’. well. Edited January 17, 2008 by markbivvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabid bunny Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Somehow I don't think "I was shooting" makes out a defence of "reasonable excuse"Reasonable excuse might include transporting the gun from one place to another, or having confiscated it from some lawbreaking miscreant you're on your way to hand it in at a police station. I don't think there is much mileage in a defence of "I was using it to shoot stuff". I think the law is clear, if it's a public place = no shooting If it's a private place you need the owners consent or it becomes an armed trespass. SteveieP, There is no law that says you can not shoot a firearm in a public place. Infact in the highways act it allows a firearm to be shot within fifety feet of the centre of a highway, provided no one is injured, threatened or made to detour. Secondly, it is not "armed trespass" if the private land has public access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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