louise theroux

[Baldrick]

For what it's worth, I've seen footage of 'canned' hunting that portrayed the industry in a far more unpleasant light. I thought Theroux's film was pretty tame, and for Channel 4, remarkably balanced.

 

Piet Warren's statement that 'Africa is f*cked' was pretty apt. Without the influx of American money, large tracts of the continent would be barren land.

[al4x]

That is the main point big wildlife needs managing and without it as he said about Elephants the scenery is ******. There is a big ruck going on in some of the National parks over there at the moment about the need for Elephant culling and whether it should be done and whether it should be sold.

That kind of hunting isn't what most yanks go over there for If you have a look on here http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve it gives a far more balanced hunter view of what they want. Yes they go for trophys but canned hunting is in the minority. If the animals have a value to them then the locals will begin to leave them alone, but in a continent where a lot of it is subsistence farming you can understand why they kill animals that ruin their crops. Or take it one step further and you get the fact that some of the wildlife will kill them.

Its an odd concept for an outsider to grasp that hunting and conservation go hand in hand but you only have to look at this country and the better game shoots are beneficial for most wildlife and you will tend to have far better natural populations of most species compared to non managed estates.

 

As for shooting from blinds it is no different to high seats and you never know how long they had been sitting there for when you saw the shot. I'm unsure on the use of bows and arrows etc but from the results there it did look very comparable to being shot by rifle.

[Maiden22]

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Edited January 12, 2009 by Maiden22

[Poacher]

I think the Theroux tactics of being a dummy who draws out the eccentric and worse aspects of his subjects backfired. The hunters seemed to have passion and integrity and he appeared immature and without a point really. Apart from "he could n,t do it". These guys had too much about them to fall for his vacuous slack jawed gawping. The one he did wind up expressed himself powerfully . Theroux,s lily livered sentimental approach convinced no one.

Spot on having seen some of his other 'adventures' i fully agree with the above.

[al4x]

I think the Theroux tactics of being a dummy who draws out the eccentric and worse aspects of his subjects backfired. The hunters seemed to have passion and integrity and he appeared immature and without a point really. Apart from "he could n,t do it". These guys had too much about them to fall for his vacuous slack jawed gawping. The one he did wind up expressed himself powerfully . Theroux,s lily livered sentimental approach convinced no one.

Spot on having seen some of his other 'adventures' i fully agree with the above.

 

 

he also picked the worst possible kind of hunting so the fact he came out of it with an understanding of their way of life was pretty amazing. I was almost hoping the breeder was going to push him off that bridge into the pen towards the end. Good on the BBC though for not editing that out as that was one of the better bits of the show.

[vole]

Cheers guys. Despite it being canned hunting,the reality of having a living animal in his sights and the enormous responsibility of it just made him visibly wilt.I think he did realise for a second it isnt just killing for fun. Tangling with celebs,swingers and Jimmy Saville is more his forte.This exposed him but at least he was man enough not to take the shot rather than just do it for the camera. He bit off more than he could chew with this one.

[Ferret Master]

I was out messing about in a flurry of snow and well... missed it.

 

Will it be available online like channel 4 do?

 

FM

 

I think BBC has an i-player or something similar which allows you to watch programs up to a week after they have been on. Try the BBC website, although I've never tried it myself.

Cheers Doc I'll have a look.

 

FM

[fallowbuck]

It was the first time I have seen Louis lost for words! Despite his best efforts, these simple farming/hunting people came out on top and hid nothing! LACS eat your heart out!! All those animals would have been poached out if it wasn't for the game farms. Look at Zimbabeway! It is a tragedy!! Louis shot hiself in the foot!!(Did he want to? He is a very astute man???)

[WGD]

I thought LT tried to impose an "anti" slant on the presentation but the game farmers got their point across, fairly balance all in all.

 

Much has been said about the fact that this is not hunting, and it's like shooting fish in a barrel etc etc.

 

Whether you would get any enjoyment from it or not is entirely your opinion, but the principal is NO different to large, corporate driven pheasant shoots aiming for bags in the high hundreds every time out and, in the same way, conservation and land management are the ultimate beneficiaries.

 

This is to be supported IMO.

 

WGD

[vole]

Well said,sir.

[Tel Time]

i was sat with my wife through out the whole program, her face was a picture to see, but in this crowded world where the humans are the "super predator" the "pay your way" philosophy was an astounding piece of conservation brilliance with the inevitable comparison to..................... modern zoo's, now why do people not pay to go see these animals in there reserves? oh they do, on safari, but often they only see the rotting corpses of poacher killed animals, and an ineffectual government backed protection service for them, when an animal is worth 10 grand + then the people who it "belongs" to will protect it, properly.

 

anyway i thought louie came across as a bit of a **** who knew nothing about hunting, and if you can't kill it you do not have the right to eat it but we are an informed audience.

 

p.s i personally would not do that kind of "hunting" even if i had all the money in the world.

[Dunkield]

anyway i thought louie came across as a bit of a **** who knew nothing about hunting, and if you can't kill it you do not have the right to eat it but we are an informed audience.

So based on that, any housewife who isn't prepared to kill a pig shouldn't cook or eat bacon?

 

He is a journalist, he never claimed to know anything about hunting

[Dr W]

I watched it last night with my mrs and enjoyed it (as I do most Louis Theroux's programs).

 

To be quite honest I thought it was no different to farming and since the meat was given or sold to locals I don't have a problem with it.

 

Whilst there appeared to be very little skill in it it has helped to increase numbers (although these will be shot at some point). I liked the vet guy who, I guess like most of us, cares for animals and wanted them to have a good life and be killed quickly.

 

I think I'd drawn the line at Rhinos and Elephants which are rapidly decreasing in numbers, perhaps they should be made (say instead of taxes) to raise a certain number of endangered animals and release them into the wild (I don't know if this would work but it would improve the hunting farm's image with the general public).

 

I do wonder whether Louis was ever really considering shooting an animal on tv, the left wind anti's at the BBC might not have liked it and could have affected his career.

Edited April 8, 2008 by Dr W

[malkiserow]

Was there a specific aim of the program? I am not sure but presuming it was to explore the rights and wrongs of hunting then there were a few outcomes (IMHO).

 

1 The African land owners demonstrated a pragmatism, love of wildlife, economic reality and trying to make an honest living.

2 Louis had an inconclusive outcome to the program, almost as if he lost the purpose of the program.

3 game breeding has a future in the hands of professionals with a very clear purpose

4 The American hunters attitudes were not as extreme as i thought but I don't like their approach to hunting

5 peoples attitudes can change as they experience and understand more about hunting

 

Did it answer anything? probably not except LT need to explore himself a bit more and come to a viewpoint that he is comfortable with.... Why? because intellectually he was starting to get it but he had morality issues which he is still wrestling with.

 

The general public do need to understand the environment in which we live is not "natural" and numbers of wildlife and habitats need to be "managed" what ever continent they are on. This means sometimes numbers need reducing and sometimes numbers need support, breeding and protection. This means hunting is required and conservation is required, they are not mutually exclusive.

 

Last out come.... as Henry says...more questions are raised and I would add....by the people open minded enough to conceive them.

Malk

Edited April 8, 2008 by malkiserow

[tulkyuk]

Best Quote was from Louis was when one of the farmers ( guy who bred lions) takes him round his game farm and the guy gets the shottie ready, Louis Says " Its all gone a bit Earnest hemmingway"

Edited April 8, 2008 by tulkyuk

[Ballymac]

One thing LT did was provoke a reaction. It has certainly got people talking here.

 

One of the things that struck me was that the farmers could not bring themselves to hunt anymore. Maybe this says more than anything else. I would prefer to see an animal stalked, but it probably is purely economics, there is more money in this type of 'farming'. And IMO these farmers probably feel that they have sold themselves out (partially) because to make a living they are providing a service they are not 100% comfortable with, but they realise the end result is worth it, and I don't just mean the money.

 

Personally I don't agree with this type of hunting if you can afford it you should shoot anything. I have been on driven pheasant and partridge shoots and have gone off them too. I much prefer to hunt with a dog, walked up shooting 2 birds a day per gun. Although, I do like to do a bit of decoying sitting in a hide waiting for the quarry to come to feed. Am I being a hypocrite ?

 

I watched the program with my 12 yr old son, who goes out shooting with me, and he felt that this was all wrong, just to have a trophy on the wall. He felt that selling the meat on or whatever happened didnt justify a trophy on someones' wall and shooting a zebra (or not).... why ? it just a stripey horse.

 

Like I said LT provoked a reaction. That's the most typing I have done on this forum.

[al4x]

He did provoke a reaction but this kind of hunting is actually not what most yanks go for, the other thing to remember is though some of the estates may be fenced they can also be rather large, what fencing does is stop the animals wandering into areas where they might be poached or be eaten by predators. It was designed to give the maximum shock factor and had it been in effect in the wild that effect would have been less for the tv viewers. Have a read through this report on a US forum and you may get a better appreciation of why people do it!

 

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/fo...m/807101618/p/1

[Tel Time]

*****r! me and my big mouth! now i don't get to eat piggy sarnies.

 

As the debate rages, i ask the question's, expecting a robust response, of whether we are actually qualified to debate the ethics of this type of hunt, given that the biggest thing we shoot is deer, (and only a few not the majority) and the restrictions that are imposed? if the Lords of the heather could get round DEFRA and other government bodies would WE not be able to farm/hunt antelope in huge fenced off compounds, they did it with mink for money? i can hear the gnashing an a wailing of the antis now, but under the same token that the SA farmers are doing it (conservation) could we not do this for alien species?