mudpatten Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 What, quite rightly, the jury did not hear is that George is a convicted sex offender with a record for attempted rape and indecent assault and that he had been arrested for three other indecent assualts. Armed with a 12" hunting knife, 50ft. coil of rope and dressed up as Rambo, he once tried to break into Kensington Palace to see Princess Diana. Previous girlfriends and his estranged wife claim he subjected them to regular beatings and engaged in violent sex. Years before Dando was murdered, a man called Mr. Bulsara,(Georges other name) visited local estate agents near where the presenter lived saying he wanted to view properties in that area. At that time Dandos house was up for sale. There is more circumstancial stuff of a similar nature. It seems that George was a more viable suspect that many give credit for. What he was not, was a bloke just picked up at random on the street and then "fitted up". Innocent of Dandos murder he may well be,but,if you were the CPS officer in possession of all the facts, responsible for deciding whether he was put before a court would you honestly have said "No."? Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 What, quite rightly, the jury did not hear is that George is a convicted sex offender with a record for attempted rape and indecent assault and that he had been arrested for three other indecent assualts. Armed with a 12" hunting knife, 50ft. coil of rope and dressed up as Rambo, he once tried to break into Kensington Palace to see Princess Diana. Previous girlfriends and his estranged wife claim he subjected them to regular beatings and engaged in violent sex. Years before Dando was murdered, a man called Mr. Bulsara,(Georges other name) visited local estate agents near where the presenter lived saying he wanted to view properties in that area. At that time Dandos house was up for sale. There is more circumstancial stuff of a similar nature. It seems that George was a more viable suspect that many give credit for. What he was not, was a bloke just picked up at random on the street and then "fitted up". Innocent of Dandos murder he may well be,but,if you were the CPS officer in possession of all the facts, responsible for deciding whether he was put before a court would you honestly have said "No."? Nick. So circumstantial evidence was "not put to the jury" so why was "factual" evidence not? ie he was "seen " by several peolple but NOT ONE picked him out of an identity parade? the killer was supposedly seen driving a series 7 BM ( george cant drive) etc etc now in 2002 this was printed, makes interesting reading? cheers KW http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/jul/06/jilldando.weekend7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Some interesting observations, but I notice that you have avoided the question in my final paragraph. A yes or no answer will suffice. Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Some interesting observations, but I notice that you have avoided the question in my final paragraph. A yes or no answer will suffice. Nick. impossible question to answer? as is it not fact the CPS were NOT in possesion of ALL the facts and now it seems they new that? you seemingly support the CPS here, yet week in week out we see cases that cost a fortune "dropped" at court due to "lack of evidence" yet the CPS still thought it right to bring about a prosecution, I myself was on jury service at teeside crown court last sept, I was a juror on a case( money laundering) the judge directed us to "find the defendant not guilty" ( she was as guily as sin) reason? one police officer had "lost his notes" another said she did not charge and accompany the defendant to the station ( she had) and thirdly NO checks on the defendants supposed income were made? this case took 2 years to bring to court and ten minutes to tear apart, good our cps aint they cheers KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 You lot get away scott free for hanging monkeys so don't complain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 He's really changed his appearance since the days of culture club. Maybe he's a master of disguise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 I don`t especially support the CPS but there will always be cases, and this was one, where the evidence was at best, 50-50. Where the evidence is so finely balanced the whole point of the jury system is that 12 upstanding citizens like yourself should make the final decision. As far as I can tell, nobody expected him to be convicted. None the less, a majority of jurors decided that he did do it. What happened thereafter had everything to do with the judicial system and nothing to do with the CPS or the police, who seem to have come in for a lot of stick on this thread. i can give you a list as long as your arm of CPS and police cock ups such as you describe. The Judiciary seem to take great delight in nit picking at petty detail and throwing cases out. Or is that proving "beyond reasonable doubt." I`m mildly surprised, given some of the viewpoints here, that no one takes the view that, whether or not he murdered Dando, we all slept safer in our beds with a dangerous man like George behind bars. Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 i think there was a second gunman involved, could have been on the grassy knoll what does it all matter? we put out faith in the hands of the police, and nearly all the time they get it right. we tend to focus on the negatives rather than the positives. the man is free now, although nothing can give back the eight years.....blah blah blah.... but, when we get it right, there is times when even this aint good enough for some of the gen public. they realised when new evidence was presented that they had got it wrong, and will now try and right those wrongs. why do we always belive what is put in front of us as the truth? just becuse somebody says its true, we vary rarely question people in authority as we are conditioned to accept their version. now im not saying that we should delv deeper into everything that authoritarians offer us, but maybe our efforts to broaden our minds could be better. as for mr george.................................................................... has anybody else offered this theory yet, if not....... i claim it as MINE! they arrested barry george for the murder, but bungled it somehow, he still goes down.....for.....wait for it.........8-10 YEARS!!!! how long has he just served? they could have kept him longer, but he knew something he shouldnt know, and has made a deal for release. i know i can be a daft sod most of the time, but i can offer a serious post when prompted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) Just because his conviction has been thrown out, it doesn't mean he's definitely innocent. It just means he was convicted on dodgy evidence, as were the Guildford 6 or the Birmingham 3 or whatever they were called.. There's a lot of this about, but as far as I'm concerned, there must have been plenty of reasons why he was a suspect and I find some of the alternative theories a bit far-fetched, Bosnian hitmen etc etc etc He was certainly a ******* fruitcake, there's no getting away from that. It looks like he'll be a very rich fruitcake now I suppose we'll never know Edited August 2, 2008 by Chard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilv Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) maybe its time for juries to be up of professional people i.e. lawyers, psychiatrists etc . Just a thought ?? is common sense ,limited to "professional " people then ,i take it you put yourself in this group. No it certainly isn't and neither is intelligence as measured by tests. The problem with juries now is that people get on them who are stupid, idle and bigots. Look at the case where the juror was found to be playing an ipod into her ears while supposedly listening to the evidence and thinking about it. I've never been a juror, but like most people I know enough people who have and they have sometimes told me they were appalled at the stupid bigotry that has been spouted in the jury room - really stupid, illogical stuff. You have to hope that for every one of them, there are two sane and sensible people who are strong minded enough to counteract them, but it's a lottery isn't it. Innocent of Dandos murder he may well be,but,if you were the CPS officer in possession of all the facts, responsible for deciding whether he was put before a court would you honestly have said "No."? Nick. Yes I would, and I'll tell you why. There was only circumstantial evidence and a 'fishy' speck of so called firearms residue in favour of the case. Against it were all the facts that people have brought up about Barry George - mainly, that a very proficient hit was supposedly carried out by a guy who is a hopeless, and socially inept buffoon. Barry George was very good at getting caught - you already pointed that out. He couldn't drive, and he couldn't plan things. The real problem here was the pressure to catch someone for this high profile murder. I think that got in the way of good judgement in this case. We depend on the mass of honest policemen, but we are too often let down by some of them and when we are, there is usually no comeback against them. Edited August 2, 2008 by Evilv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Priosn grub must be as good as people keep saying....he's a bit of a fat lad nowadays Dando was serious crumpet though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulf Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 "Armed with a 12" hunting knife, 50ft. coil of rope and dressed up as Rambo, he once tried to break into Kensington Palace to see Princess Diana." This sort of subtle aproach just goes to show that the guy wouldnt be caypable of carefully planned and sucesfully caried out murder leaving no traces. The bloke was and probably still is a unhinged deluded simpleton, but definately not the murderer of jill dando. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Had the jury seen a list of barry georges previous convictions then they may have come up with a different verdict . Call him what you may ,but he is a very dangerous man . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulf Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Yes, i dont disagree that he is but he was tried for a SPECIFIC crime and it is seriusly doubtfull that he was responsible for it. Past history is just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Had the jury seen a list of barry georges previous convictions then they may have come up with a different verdict . Call him what you may ,but he is a very dangerous man . Harnser . Thats why most of the time previous is not made available. Unfortunately justice is so often about which barister can perform the greater theatrical display for a jury who are baffled by often several weeks of nonsense. It has little to o with right and wrong.Sometimes summary justice is needd for that(although I would never justify taking the law into your own hands of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Had the jury seen a list of barry georges previous convictions then they may have come up with a different verdict . Call him what you may ,but he is a very dangerous man . Harnser . you can`t read his previous out in the crown court as not to influence the jury , but you can in the magistrates court maybe the whole system needs looking at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Had the jury seen a list of barry georges previous convictions then they may have come up with a different verdict . Call him what you may ,but he is a very dangerous man . Harnser . you can`t read his previous out in the crown court as not to influence the jury , but you can in the magistrates court maybe the whole system needs looking at Not strictly true there. The system has flaws(show me something that doesn't) but it's a damn sight better than most other countires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Had the jury seen a list of barry georges previous convictions then they may have come up with a different verdict . Call him what you may ,but he is a very dangerous man . Harnser . you can`t read his previous out in the crown court as not to influence the jury , but you can in the magistrates court maybe the whole system needs looking at Not strictly true there. The system has flaws(show me something that doesn't) but it's a damn sight better than most other countires. the system has its flaws =true , our judicial is better than most of the civilised world, but too many people are walking free because of these sometimes mediocre flaws .With all the technology in forensics and d.n.a. testing the authorities are still failing the system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Guilty as charged in my opinion, same as the Birmingham six and the Guldford four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I`m old enough to remember when it was safe to walk our streets at night and the criminal classes had a healthy respect,indeed, were afraid of the police. The assumption with a jury or magistrates bench would be that a charged suspect put before a court was guilty, of something, or the police would`nt have put him there. Nowadays, everybody is an expert on justice and human rights and our streets are a war zone with innocent children being stabbed to death on a daily basis. It ain`t "Justice", but bring back the good old "Fit up." Take the gloves off and let the police do their job. Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I`m old enough to remember when it was safe to walk our streets at night and the criminal classes had a healthy respect,indeed, were afraid of the police. The assumption with a jury or magistrates bench would be that a charged suspect put before a court was guilty, of something, or the police would`nt have put him there. Nowadays, everybody is an expert on justice and human rights and our streets are a war zone with innocent children being stabbed to death on a daily basis. It ain`t "Justice", but bring back the good old "Fit up." Take the gloves off and let the police do their job. Nick. So you support corruption and fabrication? the very thing that brought about the release of the Birmingham six? even though the judicial "opinion" was that they where guilty? "New evidence of police fabrication and suppression of evidence, the discrediting of both the confessions and the 1975 forensic evidence led to the Crown withdrawing most of its case against the men" As for George lets just say with opinions like yours and poontangs! thank god we dont still have the death penalty.and in truth its because of opinions and reasoning like yours, that we dont have the tool of capital punishment in truly deserved cases. cheers KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I`m old enough to remember when it was safe to walk our streets at night and the criminal classes had a healthy respect,indeed, were afraid of the police. The assumption with a jury or magistrates bench would be that a charged suspect put before a court was guilty, of something, or the police would`nt have put him there. Nowadays, everybody is an expert on justice and human rights and our streets are a war zone with innocent children being stabbed to death on a daily basis. It ain`t "Justice", but bring back the good old "Fit up." Take the gloves off and let the police do their job. Nick. as quoted in previous posts the system do`es has its flaws , but a good old "fit up" maybe you have watched to many gangster movies (you dirty rat) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Too many bleeding heart liberals for my liking. Its your sort of attitude that has led to the castration of the police who are now regarded by many criminals as a minor nuisance rather than a threat. Bring back the sort of policing, for those too young to have witnessed it first hand, that one sees portrayed in "Life on Mars". The coppers might have been a bit heavy handed and even a bit bent, but your children could walk the streets without fear of being raped, robbed or murdered. Someone once said "you get the police service you deserve". I think we all deserve better. Never mind nit picking,politically correct "justice", what about restoring the Queens peace to some of the areas that hav`nt known it for years. Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter-peter Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 there is worse. hannraty hung for murder and proved to be innocent some years later. derek bentley 17 years old happened to be in the company of christopher craig who shot a cop. craig was 16 got a gaol sentence and is now free, bentley who was retarded person got hung. I hope the jurors and judges read this . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter-peter Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) My heart goes out to the likes of stephan kishco. james hanratty. derek bentley and the rest who have suffered from the wrong arm of the law. My wife some years ago got called up for jury service, 5 aisians where up on a charge of groping a young girl in a lift. some of them admitted the offence, some blamed their mates. bradford crown court. they all got of, good old british justice. Edited August 3, 2008 by peter-peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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