game shooting with a semi

[coupe312]

Why should he, it will only start a row

 

as has been said, you may feel you are safe but unless you are a walking gun or on the peg you must have your gun broken thus all can see at a glance you are in safe mode,

 

if you dont agree with that simple rule for the peace of mind of all others then it would be easy to draw the conclusion you are the type of person who is not fully on board with the safety of all on the day, that view may well be wrong buts its one folk will none the less have, I share the views of the tradition and sporting etiquette and if anyone turned out on a game day I was on with a semi auto I make no bones about the fact the shoot captain and the offender would be consulted and my opinion shared

 

row is a bit strong! a sensible private discusion.

My first/main synidicate a private conversation is what would happen. we are all adults after all. i know emoitions can run high but this syndicate all are friends and sensible discusion alway occurs. i though the same would be here.

the syndate i shoot don't care what you shoot as long as it legal and your safe with it and show consideration to others.

anyone not been safe is pulled up imediatly.

 

As i said on my post i shoot o/u so the no semi rule does not effect me directly.

The gent in question are close friend and i've shot with them for quiet a few years.

they been memeber of the syndicate for 3 years now. i'm the new commer to this syndicate not them ( only half gun).

They only shoot semi's and thats all they have ever shot.

 

i accept tradition and kind of stick to it myself but does that not mean we should all just use sxs.

am i out of term shooting a O?U then???

 

i do agree with saftey of others. one of the most important way to secure our sport is to premote it as a safe past time/ hobby.

 

I you can't do it safe, don't do it!!!!

[neil smith]

If you can't do it safe, don't do it!!!!

 

As predicted these type of threads can lead to some friction but my point is simply that it is more a case of shoots wishing to uphold tradition than the semi auto shotgun being unsafe, lets be very clear ONLY THE SHOOTER CAN BE UNSAFE. it doesnt matter if its a SBS an O&U or a semi, they all look equally threatening if you happen to be looking at a wayward muzzle pointed in your direction.

 

So can we please stop pretending semi auto shotguns are less safe & admit that its tradition & sometimes bad gun handling that causes the funny looks on shoot days.

 

I have no problem with those that wish to keep there shoot traditional, many enlightened syndicates do allow some members to use semi's within a trusted group which is a good thing but guys lets not label a type of gun something that its not, this is ALWAYS a shooter training issue & is no fault of the guns design.

 

N

[Bleeh]

Alright people, You can all moan as much as you want.

 

Either way, if you can find a Driven Estate that will let you shoot with a Semi, you're more than welcome.

 

Fact is, you'll be looking for a while.

[lapwing]

Maybe I am a bit biased as I saw someone shoot a hole in the turf 18" from a friends foot a few years ago with an "empty" semi auto....but surely that is not the point. I thought the bottom line is that we all go shooting because we enjoy it, and unease about the stranger on the next peg not having a visibly safe gun is not an unavoidable worry. Bit selfish to inflict it in my humble view

[bignoel]

As predicted these type of threads can lead to some friction but my point is simply that it is more a case of shoots wishing to uphold tradition than the semi auto shotgun being unsafe, lets be very clear ONLY THE SHOOTER CAN BE UNSAFE. it doesnt matter if its a SBS an O&U or a semi, they all look equally threatening if you happen to be looking at a wayward muzzle pointed in your direction.

 

So can we please stop pretending semi auto shotguns are less safe & admit that its tradition & sometimes bad gun handling that causes the funny looks on shoot days.

 

I have no problem with those that wish to keep there shoot traditional, many enlightened syndicates do allow some members to use semi's within a trusted group which is a good thing but guys lets not label a type of gun something that its not, this is ALWAYS a shooter training issue & is no fault of the guns design.

 

N

 

well put mr smith

[Sprinter]

I'm not entirely sure it's wholly a safety thing, although personally I hate to see a semi on a driven day it's a tradition thing for me. I absolutely wouldn't do a walked up day next to a guy I don't know with a semi, it's a life preservation thing (mine), I just can't see someone shucking the carts out every time there is a fence to go over or thick cover to go through.

 

However have you thought of this on a driven day........

 

Man with double sbs or OU bang bang reload if it's a busy stand a couple of birds will go over while reloading bang bang.

 

Guy with semi Bang bang bang (hmm) reload, ooer that's 1 more shot than all of your fellow guns - you're all paying the same price for the day - how is that fair?

 

Guy with fac semi Bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang seems a little unsporting to me and shows little respect for your fellow guns, your host or the quarry.

[neil smith]

I just can't see someone shucking the carts out every time there is a fence to go over or thick cover to go through.

 

Sprinter

 

Some semi's allow the round in the chamber to be removed while retaining any other carts in the magazine the Browning Gold & Benelli M1 & M2 are examples of this so with single round removed & a safety flag quickly inserted and all can see its safe as you cross a fence.

 

You would also not be granted game shooting on your FAC conditions for a Multishot Shotgun, vermin is then only excepted quarry as far as I know.

 

Even with a S2 auto you dont have to load three carts & if you were sporting just have two like everyone else.

 

I have on problem with shoots being traditional at all, after all its each to there own, some shoots allow them, my mate uses his on driven days at a local syndicate without problem, to me its about the company & not so much about the tweedy image.

 

N

Edited November 10, 2008 by neil smith

[Bleeh]

You would also not be granted game shooting on your FAC conditions for a Multishot Shotgun

 

 

That's because it's illegal to shoot game and wildfowl with any gun that holds more than 2 cartridges. (U/O S/S and 3-shot's)

Edited November 10, 2008 by Bleeh

[peter-peter]

This subject has been done to death on other forums I have visited, the bottom line is, its the shooter who can be unsafe & is no fault of the gun when its used properly eg; checking the gun is empty when negotiating obsticls, keeping your finger out of the trigger guard until the sights are aligned with your target & most importantly being very aware of your muzzle direction at all times.

 

A semi is no more unsafe than any other type of shotgun its simply a training issue for the operator, some shoots have experienced people who have not been as safe as they should have been & thats not an option when your handling this type of shotgun, as a result game shoots tend to say "no auto's" because they do not know how experienced a stranger is.

 

If there was a system of training in place for game shooters to prove there competency then it would be an easy thing for anyone to say "Im safe with a semi I have a certificate or whatever to prove it"

 

I suspect on many shoots its also down to the "old hands" wanting to keep it as traditional as possible, I do not game shoot any more as I prefer my auto to any of my other guns & so use it elsewhere, if you cant find a shoot willing to allow you to use one then try a different branch of the shooting sports as there are many & vote with your feet, I did.

 

N

BANG ON THE NAIL NEIL.

[peter-peter]

no gun is safe.

its the nut behind the butt.

my group are 80% auto users.

the only near misses I have seen have been with o/u's

popping in a couple of carts and closing the gun with a finger on the trigger.

the gun is only as safe as the shooter no matter what its configuration.

[Imperfection]

If im shooting with friends-i use this which is clearly obvious even from a distance my gun is safe.When i want to shoot,only takes a moment to pull it from breech,press bolt release button and then fire.

 

 

I ordered two from America from here.

[Andy W]

Now that saf-t plug is a good simple design.

[MC]

It is a good design but with one flaw as I see it.

 

You could still have a cartridge in the chamber. The Napier flag has a plastic section that pushes into the chamber by an inch or so so it is impossible to load. Other than that it is good, the napier ones don't seem to last very long before the flag comes off.

[Salop Matt]

I hope I dont make myself to unpopular with this but . . . . . . . . . . As a lad beating etc through to the odd days driven iv been invited on one of the bigest dangers iv seen is usually the old boys 70 + and the things they seem to do ie: walk with the gun loaded and not watching where its pointed esp when loaded and shooters swinging on a bird across the shooting line and loaded guns being passed across obsticals. I know it isnt just the old boys but when ever iv seen it they have been the main offenders.

 

Now its something I think people should speak up about not just leave it because its there land or theyv shot there scince 1900.

 

I would be curious to know some peoples feelings on the following hyperthetical situation!

 

An old chap in his 70`s who is still very on the ball and is a long standing syndicate member and very safe but due to the years taking there toll on his body he stuggles to shoot a sbs or ou due to recoil but has recently found he can manage a SA.

 

Would you disapprove of the gent using his SA ? . . . . . . . . . . when he is safe and because it allows him to still carry on the sport / hobby he loves so much and is very highly thought of in.

ie: would you make any exceptions to tradition for anyone ?

Also bearing in mind you can now buy a SA which can be broken.

[Greenhunter]

Thanks salop sniper! That is more or less the position I'm in now, although I'm not 70 or doddery!

 

Made this point earlier in this thread but it was never commented on.

 

Hope you have more joy with it!

Edited November 11, 2008 by Greenhunter

[Salop Matt]

Doubt it as I have this amazing abiltiy to kill a thread with a single posting

[Greenhunter]

It is a good design but with one flaw as I see it.

 

You could still have a cartridge in the chamber. The Napier flag has a plastic section that pushes into the chamber by an inch or so so it is impossible to load. Other than that it is good, the napier ones don't seem to last very long before the flag comes off.

 

Sorry, but I can't see it would make any difference, it couldn't be discharged even if you pulled the trigger with the plastic in the ejection port!

Anyhow, I've just ordered one so I'll try it!

[MC]

If there is a cartridge in the chamber then it can be fired. Accidents happen.

 

If that device went into the chamber like conventional breech flags then it would be excellent. With that device the gun can still be left loaded.

 

It would not fire if you pulled the trigger with that device in place but what if you fell? what if you knocked that device out? the only safe gun is unloaded. No round in the breech it cannot fire, end of story, full stop.

 

Piece of plastic in the ejection port and one in the chamber, nowhere near safe.

 

And in reply to Salop sniper, no I do not see any reason why your doddery old man should use a semi auto. Although there are other devices that can be fitted to "Traditional" guns to reduce recoil. I have one on my O/U.

[Salop Matt]

And in reply to Salop sniper, no I do not see any reason why your doddery old man should use a semi auto. Although there are other devices that can be fitted to "Traditional" guns to reduce recoil. I have one on my O/U.

 

 

MC thanks for your reply but this isnt my doddery old man !

 

Just a hypothetical question as i know there are plenty of shoots out there with the good old boys who are valued and we all want to still see out the following season as long as they are safe and fit to do so !

[Imperfection]

It is a good design but with one flaw as I see it.

 

You could still have a cartridge in the chamber. The Napier flag has a plastic section that pushes into the chamber by an inch or so so it is impossible to load. Other than that it is good, the napier ones don't seem to last very long before the flag comes off.

 

If i did stumble and drop the gun-the chances of the Saf-t-plug falling out of breech,bolt releasing forward and safety switching off is incredibly remote.To release the plug from breech you have to push together the top/bottom and pull at same time.Its a very snug fit and i've tried yanking it about,but its always remained in situ.You need to see one to get a better idea as to how simple,but very very effective the device is.

[Billy.]

Hmmm... I truly think it is more to do with etiquette, than safety... (comments on my thoughts are welcome) As I do always recall seeing a cartoon of a group of guns discussing something and with the man in the background holding a semi auto, covered in camo and bullets everywhere (obviously I know nobody looks like that!)

 

I've only ever used my semi auto for pigeons and I use my O/U for game. However I do always feel a tad uncomfortable when the majority of the guns are shooting side by sides!

 

So in my opinion, I think they're just trying to say they don't want them in the politest possible way.

[silver_pigeon]

I'm still giggling from reading Mungler's post.......I agree with all who have said this is a tradition thing...it's horses for courses and many people's opinion is that a Semi-Auto just isn't fitting on a game shoot/driven day.

 

You meet friction with a Semi, people do seem to stare and be very wary that it is safe...that's what I've found, but I pride myself on knowing that I am as safe as I possibly can be with my Franchi, and its probably overkill but I clearly make it visable that I'm aware of the gun I have!

 

There have been "accidents" with all guns, O/U, SBS, Semi-Auto and pump...but the main thing is...human error on those accounts and that is regardless of what you shoot!

 

Salop Sniper's comment about the old boy on his shoot...it's not his Dad....lol, I'd love to see his Dad read this! I understand what he is saying but also there is a school of though that safety comes first and whether people shoot with a semi or o/u they have to be responsible for their own conduct and be honourable enough to give up when they feel they are not 100% safe!

 

[MC]

If i did stumble and drop the gun-the chances of the Saf-t-plug falling out of breech,bolt releasing forward and safety switching off is incredibly remote.To release the plug from breech you have to push together the top/bottom and pull at same time.Its a very snug fit and i've tried yanking it about,but its always remained in situ.You need to see one to get a better idea as to how simple,but very very effective the device is.

 

 

Never the less, the point I am trying to make is that a gun with a cartridge in the chamber is unsafe. The likelyhood of me stumbling and my O/U closing and going off is remote but it is possible which is why it would be unloaded when crossing any obstacle etc.

 

I did not design the thing I merely made a comment on it and I do apologise to anyone who I have offended, but in my opinion if you believe that it makes no difference whether a gun is safe or not when there is a cartridge in the chamber do not deserve to be trusted with hiolding and using firearms.

 

As silver pigeon says these accidents are all down to human error, which is the one thing which you can't take away.

 

You need 3 things for an accident to happen, gun ammunition and human. take any one of these away and it won't. The simplest one is remove the ammunition. Unload your gun when crossing obstacles, do not rely on a piece of plastic.

[Greenhunter]

Never the less, the point I am trying to make is that a gun with a cartridge in the chamber is unsafe. The likelyhood of me stumbling and my O/U closing and going off is remote but it is possible which is why it would be unloaded when crossing any obstacle etc.

 

I did not design the thing I merely made a comment on it and I do apologise to anyone who I have offended, but in my opinion if you believe that it makes no difference whether a gun is safe or not when there is a cartridge in the chamber do not deserve to be trusted with hiolding and using firearms.

 

As silver pigeon says these accidents are all down to human error, which is the one thing which you can't take away.

 

You need 3 things for an accident to happen, gun ammunition and human. take any one of these away and it won't. The simplest one is remove the ammunition. Unload your gun when crossing obstacles, do not rely on a piece of plastic.

Since I was the one who suggested it would be safe EVEN with a cartridge in the chamber( stress the even).

Its not some thing I would do at any time! When I saw the Saf-t I thought that it was a great solution to showing others that I've made a good attempt to show them my gun is safe, which is, as has been said, difficult to do with an auto at distance. A better solution than the flag since the breech bolt is retracted in my opinion.

[MC]

Since I was the one who suggested it would be safe EVEN with a cartridge in the chamber( stress the even).

Its not some thing I would do at any time! When I saw the Saf-t I thought that it was a great solution to showing others that I've made a good attempt to show them my gun is safe, which is, as has been said, difficult to do with an auto at distance. A better solution than the flag since the breech bolt is retracted in my opinion.

 

 

As it is with the Napier flag,

 

If that Saf t had a piece of plastic that prevented there being a cartridge in the chamber it would be an excellent invention. Perhaps I should e mail the manufacturers with a design for Mk 2.

 

I am not knocking it I just feel that there could be an improvement.