SACS

[David BASC]

Rowing about this in public will make no difference- Let Ian do his thing as CEO – Being a CEO when things are going well is very easy- anyone can do it! Even me! But when things go bad- that is when you see the true colour of a CEO – so let’s give him a fair run and see how he does eh?.

 

Tom, I understand your passion but please calm down, lets face it – SACS supporters have been quick enough to give BASC a kicking – maybe some think it is ‘payback time’ but as I say lets all calm down. After all mate you took this public….. If you wanted to keep it all quiet then best not to post your reasons for resignation on a public forum.

 

Mark, Winchester was, as I understand it, told by SACS they would cover his costs and fight his case – we told him we would not support the initial case but would look at the appeal – that’s how we do things – look on the firearms page of the web site for more details.(OK If I am wrong about what SACS said then lets see the evidence from Ian and Winchester and I will apologize unreservedly on this forum.

 

Why did it all go wrong for Winchester? May be it was the way it was handled by the insurers, or the legal team that was employed, or the barrister on the day, or what ever, maybe the police were right (but again I doubt it based on what I know of the case) maybe we will never know – but I am sure as God made little eggs that if the legal team had pulled it off and Winchester had won his case SACS would be crowing about it all over this site and theirs! It cuts both ways!

 

Note the threads on the SACS forum berating BASC and congratulating the SACS members who had a pop at BASC on the PW forum are still on the SACS forum, but Winchesters correspondence about how his case was run and the aftermath have been removed! The power of censorship!

 

Note also that I have done my very best not to try an make mileage out of this sorry mess but believe me it is getting very difficult to hold back – particularly after the personal slagging off I have has from some SACS members!

 

It’s a blessed mess – lets see how quickly and efficiently Ian and Tom can sort this out.

 

David

[Mungler]

Legally you can't request that content from a public forum (yours) should be removed from another forum (here). Perhaps the poster can, this Ian chap, but not you.

 

Regards,

 

Jon

 

 

Indeed, someones on the money.

 

The post in question was on the public access section of the forum i.e. no click wrap agreement, no membership terms and conditions to sign upto. It's just out there for all to see and read, which is why it was probably posted there eh? Also, no copyright notices from the creator of the content - take this and the aforesaid and I reckon you would struggle to seek to enforce any copyright.

 

Seems like a very petty way to enforce a form of censorship or an attempt to control something which is now clearly out of control.

 

© MUNGSA 2008

Edited December 2, 2008 by Mungler

[CharlieT]

Why do so many people not like SAC's and similar most of the BASC members hate SAC's?

 

I'm looking about at the moment for insurance but I dare not ask the question, at the risk of starting a fight on here.

 

 

Legally you can't request that content from a public forum (yours) should be removed from another forum (here). Perhaps the poster can, this Ian chap, but not you.

 

Regards,

 

Jon

 

If I was you young man I would keep my mouth shut and not get involved with cheap digs at Tom when, as you have admitted, you no nought about SACS. Webber (Mr BASC), is quite capable of fighting his own corner.

[webber]

If I was you young man I would keep my mouth shut and not get involved with cheap digs at Tom when, as you have admitted, you no nought about SACS. Webber (Mr BASC), is quite capable of fighting his own corner.

 

Thanks CharlieT. I would have preferred extremely capable, but quite will do for now!

 

webber

[GJUK]

If I was you young man I would keep my mouth shut and not get involved with cheap digs at Tom when, as you have admitted, you no nought about SACS. Webber (Mr BASC), is quite capable of fighting his own corner.

 

Who's Tom? I've said nothing bad against this person? I only offered advise to someone that was about to get on his high legal horse.

 

You've got the wrong end of the stick mate. In fact you've picked up the wrong stick...

[webber]

Who's Tom? I've said nothing bad against this person? I only offered advise to someone that was about to get on his high legal horse.

 

You've got the wrong end of the stick mate. In fact you've picked up the wrong stick...

 

 

Amongst other things he is a staunch SACS supporter, and owner of the SACS forum, who does not appreciate criticism, but enjoys dishing it out!

 

webber

[Zapp]

Let me kick off in response Webber your a diehard BASC man thats obvious from your posts on the pigeon watch forum re: the matter and your gloating about the situation on here and you could'nt wait to tell the lads and lassies on the Hunting Life! You could'nt even give me the courtesy of giving friends on there the news myself your a **** stirrer and your right! you neither know me or Ian Clark I have resigned and with a bit of luck that may change over the next few days and common sense will prevail , and changes and compromise will take place As for "SACS" its still the best membership/insurance deal. My beef is with Ian Clark and his style of management, others might and do agree with it? its not about the organisation I rather still people joined it!! than your mob BASC or the Countryside Alliance, The one personal trait I'm proud of is I'm honest and not afraid of the courage of my convictions, If Ian Clark deserves a ragging from me at the time? he deserves it, just as I would, if I make a balls of something. You are a **** stirrer and only trying to get some milage for BASC as for pinning Ians post here thats my forums copyright and I suggest you do something quickly about the matter!!! as for the whole issue its on the sacs forum for all to see

 

Tom

 

Right, I've stayed out of this so far but cannot help but make the following observation:

 

Foxgun Tom, I cannot help but wish that you would refrain from "kicking off" at all on this forum. You may well be super-connected within SACS, but do you think that blowing your top at all and sundry (as well as well known and respected members) is doing you any favours?

 

I wont even go there where the stuffed shirt rubbish about telling members of this forum what they can and cant post is concerned. You cant old chum so dont bother.

 

You have no weight here whatsoever, so stop trying to throw it around - you can suggest that we do whatever you like but it will only ever be that; a suggestion.

 

You are a guest here, same as the rest of us. You have no special priveleges because of who you may be within your on again/off again organisation. If you like honesty as much as you profess to then please take this on board: Your rantings are getting tiresome. This airing of dirty laundry makes a mockery of SACS. I wouldnt join on the basis of what I have seen here and on your site.

 

ZB

Edited December 3, 2008 by Zapp Brannigan

[David BASC]

NOTE to all – gloves off now – from me tonight , for just one post OK? Wow the freedom of a ‘normal’ poster, not constrained by protocol – here goes…

 

GJUK, sorry you got a slapping from Charlie - uncalled for I think – I thought your guidance was correct and well intended – I guess the SACS guys don’t like it when things don’t go their way. I could say winging ******s but this would be against the site swearing protocol so I wont.

 

SACS guys seem, as I see it, to me to try and quote the law now and again when it suits them to try and frighten off people who have opposing view- my guidance is:

 

1. do not threaten law unless you are fully prepared to use law

2. do not assume you know the law unless you have been thus trained

3. do not think by threatening law you will frighten everyone off – you won’t!

4. if you go to law make sure you have damn deep pockets

5. remember there are others on here who know the law better then you –

6. before you make a fool of yourself make sure you are 100% correct before you quote the law

 

SACS supporters – wind you neck in – your management have issues that need sorting, and you will do them no favors at all be setting these little fires and sniping at other members of this forum – that will not fix your problems that Tom has so publicly aired.

 

People will judge us all by what we post- so take care what you post – on balance, to an unbiased outsider look at the posts on this thread- which ones look like they come from balanced rational, calm, thoughtful people and which do not? You decide - and thus you decide which ‘team’ you want to support to keep shooting safe.

 

If any of you SACS guys have anything constructive to add then I suggest you offer your support to Ian and not get involved in petty point scoring , and stop slapping people down for offering an opinion.

 

OK got that off my chest- back now to putting my BASC hat on.. yep it still fits – I don’t know what came over me – sorry……. Phew , back to sticking to protocol – ( note to self – MUST be nice to the SACS guys.. don’t be seen to be knocking them, keep stiff upper lip and all that, working together for the common good and all that….)

 

David

[POW!]

WOW !!! POW!

[webber]

One of my posts on this subject has been censored, deleted, not by our PW moderators, but by foxgontom, whom requested, neh demanded that I should do something about the post, which I did. The same post from me, but a slightly stronger version of his outburst aimed at me, also appeared on THL.

 

Any PW members who are interested in learning more about the situation can visit.

 

http://sacsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=4...entry2418

 

There is no need to join the forum to view, all of the posts are in the public domain, and shall remain so, unless Foxguntom decides to put his censors hat on again.

 

It has been intimated that I am a stirrer? From where I'm sat, it looks like straight forward honest reporting to me, nothing added, nothing taken away.

 

Make of it what you will.

 

Please note that my original post was post #4 on the link, with its origin fully acknowledged.

 

webber

[snozzer]

Thought I would add my 5p worth (inflation is rife).

 

The Scottish Association for Country Sports (SACS) appears to an outsider (me) to be a very amateur affair compared to BASC from its website, its internal public disputes and generally they way its members have behaved towards BASC members. I don't know why SACS exists in the first place when there is already a strong British association, I fear this sort of fragmentation of associations only benefits our opposition i.e. the anti shoot/hunt/fish/stalk brigade and maybe some regionalistic pride or personal ego's has driven the creation of that association, but people have to get over that and look beyond such shallow motives and support an association with an established history and management framwork. I accept that BASC is not perfect, but what organisation is, what is important is uniting behind our common goals which should be ensuring the future of country sports across our nation. If its not perfect work with it and inside it to make it perfect don't act like a 4year old and run off with your toys sulking and bad mouthing people.

 

Think of BASC as the trade union of country sports, an organisation who provides essential members benefits, information via magazines and its website, education through courses and political influence to keep you enjoying your sport and pastimes...

 

I had to smile at the recent furor over the £40 appeal for a media centre and a few members publically stating they were leaving BASC over the letter, well all I can say is think long and hard about what BASC is trying to achieve with a media centre. as he who is best able to present the correct, consistent message to the media is the one who will have more credibility and influence with them helping to ensure the right message is presented, listened to and aired. The letter was just an advert like any other, it was optional you didn't have to write a cheque or get your credit card out. Does the BASC mean so little to you, what have you done personally to support the association that is constantly campaigning on your behalf?

 

Normal programming will continue shortly...

[sirusman]

Thought I would add my 5p worth (inflation is rife).

 

The Scottish Association for Country Sports (SACS) appears to an outsider (me) to be a very amateur affair compared to BASC from its website, its internal public disputes and generally they way its members have behaved towards BASC members. I don't know why SACS exists in the first place when there is already a strong British association, I fear this sort of fragmentation of associations only benefits our opposition i.e. the anti shoot/hunt/fish/stalk brigade and maybe some regionalistic pride or personal ego's has driven the creation of that association, but people have to get over that and look beyond such shallow motives and support an association with an established history and management framwork. I accept that BASC is not perfect, but what organisation is, what is important is uniting behind our common goals which should be ensuring the future of country sports across our nation. If its not perfect work with it and inside it to make it perfect don't act like a 4year old and run off with your toys sulking and bad mouthing people.

 

Think of BASC as the trade union of country sports, an organisation who provides essential members benefits, information via magazines and its website, education through courses and political influence to keep you enjoying your sport and pastimes...

 

I had to smile at the recent furor over the £40 appeal for a media centre and a few members publically stating they were leaving BASC over the letter, well all I can say is think long and hard about what BASC is trying to achieve with a media centre. as he who is best able to present the correct, consistent message to the media is the one who will have more credibility and influence with them helping to ensure the right message is presented, listened to and aired. The letter was just an advert like any other, it was optional you didn't have to write a cheque or get your credit card out. Does the BASC mean so little to you, what have you done personally to support the association that is constantly campaigning on your behalf?

 

Normal programming will continue shortly...

 

Oh thats it must be right then

[6.5x55]

aFTER READING SNOZZER ,S POST I RAN OUT AND MADE A CHEQUE OUT FOR £40 TO BASC AFTER THEY HAVE HELPPED ME SO MUCH HA HA THATS GOT TO BE THE FUNNIEST POST I HAVE READ. But while we are at it my friend lost his gun because of a domestic case and BASC would not help in anyway. He got his guns back and it cost him 3000 in lawyers fees. There was in the end no case to answer he will never go back to BASC if there the only ones left. David from basc your post is quite cutting for an educated man that relies on the members to pay your wages .If i were you i would stick to the facts as you have looked very foolish on the net more than once before.

[sirusman]

[Mungler]

ROFLMAO

 

Yes indeed, out of the saga David from BASC has come out looking foolish. Ah there's nowt so blind as those who refuse to see eh?

 

Personally, given the personal abuse and nonsense he has previously endured on SACS related matters and threads on this forum (and dealt with calmly IMHO) I think he has been rather restrained and professional throughout despite enormous provocation. That is actually why he has my respect.

 

It is funny how new members manage to pop up on convenient occasions such as this with tales of friends, family and pets who have apparently been badly let down by BASC before.

[David BASC]

It is not uncommon for a domestic argument to boil over, the police to get involved and for them to take away guns – just in case. This may well be an over reaction – but this is how it is. Remember, one of the tests for firearm ownership is for you to have temperate habits!

 

I think you will find we gave your friend advice as to what he should do to try and get his guns back himself, I think you will find that we offered to and probably did call his FLO to see if we could persuade them to give his guns back and reported back to him the outcome of our conversations. . I think you will find that we told him if he got revoked then he should appeal and we would look at funding this appeal.The way BASC handled such calls for help is clearly documented on the BASC web site on the firearms section.

 

Of course if you want to send me detials by PM of your friends name and the date of the incident etc I will be happy to look up the file on this...I guess i will not hear from you will I?

 

But what on earth has your post got to do with the theme of this thread? Nothing...It would be more interesting and informative and relevant to copy across or to repeat the posts off of the SACS forum from Sirusman et al than to rake up some half baked allegation on poor service from BASC and some time in the past.

 

Remember the question on this thread is ‘SACS what is going on’ – Not ‘BASC can you please give examples of how friends or friends of friends may have been given poor service by BASC at any time in the past 100 years’

 

Hoping you will stick to the theme of the thread - but not holding my breath.

 

David

[al4x]

[al4x]

Felt that was needed but more seriously there needs to be some serious talking done within SACS if they want to have anything left. This kind of public self destruction is doing them no good at all and any credibility they had is being rapidly lost.

[6.5x55]

I thought it quite relevant when a good few of the posts were commenting on a chap called Winchester (might not be his real name of coarse )and what bad service sacs had given him . Now Basc took the view that my friend had threatened his wife as that is what he was charged with . His only crime was to look for love somewhere else and his wife didn't like this .BASC had him guilty and refused to back his court case you see if there is any doubt BASC back out. Now i would have thought that some one that was working for bASC WOULD HAVE KEPT OUT OF A POST LIKE THIS but no in David goes like a bull in a china shop .

 

ps if i give you the full details of the case will you sort out his legal costs. ill bet the answers no we don't deal in past cases . But ill bet if it was a money man you would have backed him to the end and publicly advertised the fact .That's what BASC ARE GOOD AT PROMOTING THEM SELVES AS ON OUR SIDE WHEN THE SIDE THERE ON IS GREED.

[MC]

If your "Friend" was charged with threatening his wife, BASC weren't the only ones to think that were they?

 

I am glad that SACS backed your friend 100% and paid for all his incurred costs. (Does sarcasm work on a forum?)

 

I will say that I whole heartedly agree with my learned friend from Essex. I have the utmost respect for DavidBASC, anyone who can put up with all your **** and come back again and again gets my vote.

Edited December 3, 2008 by MC

[6.5x55]

No sacs did not pay his costs he paid his own but his lawyer told him that he should take up a sacs or a sgc membership they would not have let him down had he been a member of one of them. Sarcasm dose work i laughed till i cried (fools follow men Walk there own path )

[Ozzy Fudd]

No sacs did not pay his costs he paid his own but his lawyer told him that he should take up a sacs or a sgc membership they would not have let him down had he been a member of one of them. Sarcasm dose work i laughed till i cried (fools follow men Walk there own path )

 

can i just point out, totally off topic, but that last comment does NOT work when crossing a minefield....

Edited December 3, 2008 by babbyc1000

[MC]

My lawyer told me that if you shut the stable door before the horse escapes it will save you hours of chasing.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but all the SACS promises seem to be falling flat.

 

You did not answer the bit about BASC not being the only peole who thought your friend had threatened his wife. The police quite obviously did as they charged him and took his guns.

 

I don't see a need for chucking insults around, but as I am a fool and you are a real man we obviously have differing opinions.

[6.5x55]

MC i hope your wife never accuses you of anything mate but if she dose then it will be bye bye to your guns until you prove otherwise. With regards the police they were acting on here say they do that were guns are concerned BASC were using the ill back out of this it might cost us money and we don't really need to pay we have a cop out clause.

[Mungler]

This can be easily settled by PM with David BASC and you can pass over your friend's details and BASC membership information.

 

Until that happens.......