Buzzards

[Paul in North Lincs.]

Was out reccying some new fields this afternoon which I have been asked to shoot, they lie betwwen a 2 massive fir woods, and there is alot of pigeon activity there at the moment........... anyway I spotted 4 buzzards circling together high up in the thermals , over one of the woods and was really surprized to see such a specticle, have seen the odd one or two in the past, but never 4 at once!. ........ was a remarkable sight to behold!

 

Paul in North Lincs.

Edited February 4, 2005 by Paul in North Lincs.

[El Nino]

We currently have 8 frequently seen within a couple of hundred metres of each other. Too many IMO

[Teal]

I have seen double figures of buzzards in the air at the same time in Northern Ireland. I have also seen a similar number of Red Kites near High Wycombe. The red kites are getting fed by the people, but the buzzards puzzled me, I always thought they were pretty territorial. An idea suggested was that they'd been "moved there".

[old rooster]

Not trying to score points but we had 5 buzzards at one time hovvering over a decoy pattern last year, big old birdies when they get up that close !!!

 

We get quite a few in Northants and usually see them and red kites when going down towards High Wycombe on the M40.

 

Lot of hawks about in general it seems, even heard a theory being put around that their susscessful resurgence is threatening the song bird population.

[tiercel]

I have myself seen buzzards in large numbers at this time of year. the most i have seen is 12 and they were busily scouring a freshly dung spread field for worms. Give it another month and they will be Pairing up for breeding and restablishing or finding new territories.

As for saying that the increase in hawks is threatening the song bird populus, has it never occured to the scare mongers, that spread such gossip. That it is because we have a regenarated population of song birds(after all the pestersides nearly wiped them out) that we have an increasing number of hawks.

Hawks can only increase if there is food there for them! That means 12 months of the year not just the game rearing time.

Buzzards in particuler are mostly scavengers or will eat worms and other small insects and beetles. They will i agree have a go at young poults or rabbits (the main reason that you see them attack decoys is that they mistake the decoy as carrion) says a lot for our decoying. If a preditor thinks the decoy is dead, makes you think what the pigeons make of them.

[ollie]

The most I have seen in the air at once is 7, but I regulary see 5 in the air at the one time. Although I like these spectacular birds I think Northern Ireland is over populated with them and in my opinion they are getting released by do gooders

[Gemini]

On the farm where I shoot there are a pair of Buzzards that have been there for @ 12 years, and have produced 2 young each year.

They seem to have the area to themselves and the only time I see the 4 of them in the air at the same time is @ late summer when the young birds fly the nest and are learning to fend for themselves.

As there are so few Buzzards in the area, I don’t mind them at all, and will often leave an opened-up rabbit on top of a hedge for them.

I used to have some shooting at a place called Abdon, where there were literally dozens of Honey Buzzards and I would often see them in the air circling around in very large numbers. Haven’t been there for many years so I don’t know if they are still there, but would like to think so.

G.M.

[Fisherman Mike]

Lot of hawks about in general it seems, even heard a theory being put around that their susscessful resurgence is threatening the song bird population.

I dont believe this to be true as Tercel correctly pointed out nature will find its own balance.

 

Magpies. other corvids, domestic cats and squirrels would be a bigger threat to song bird populations along with the Spanish, French and Italians who appear indiscriminately shoot anything that remotely resembles a bird..

 

The Buzzard population is healthy which reflects the rabbits recovery and partial immunity to Myxymatosis which all but wiped out Buzzards in many areas in the 50,s. DDT and other pesticides being the nail in the coffin in the 60,s & 70,s which affected their other main food source, again as Tercel said, which is Earthworms and other invertibrae.

 

The Buzzards breeding cycle is timed to coincide with the emergence of young rabbit which are their staple diet in the spring and early summer months. Carrion and road victims accounting for probably 80 % of this.

 

Red Kites are becoming established in many areas of Britain which is good because during medeavel times they were common scavangers in all the major towns and cities in Britain.

 

I for one hope the current trend in raptor numbers increases.

 

FM.

[mel b3]

gemini,i would have thought you would see quite a few in your area now (west mids) on our journey home between bridgnorth and trysul my friend and i counted almost 30 that we think were all different birds.that was around a month ago and we havent seen that many since but we regularly see 3,4 or 5 together i even see quite a few while im at work now driving around the dudley area.in the last year or so the birds of prey really seem to have increased in numbers in the areas that i shoot.its very pleasing because it was only a few years ago that the only buzzards i ever saw were the ones that my friends used to keep. .

[tiercel]

F M it is not often we agree on anything. But for once i am in total agreement with you. For any raptor to inrease, There must be sufficiant food for it to do so. As there is only one hawk in britain that can consistantly take a full grown pheasant in the wild.

There must be another explanation why the raptors are increasing! There is!

There is more food for them now than there has been for many years.The advent of setaside is one good reason why some owls are on the increase, because that area will provide habitat for a number of small animals,voles, shrews etc: that those raptors need to mentain a healthy population. There are a mulitude of reasons why we should have a healthy poulation of raptors.

Think about this. One Tawny owl on a shoot. It may take a few small poults (usually the smallest and weakest that wont survive anyhow) but he also through out the year may take up to 200 rats. Now how much maize would those 200 rats eat in a year. A lot more than the cost of a few sickly poults. So it would be a stupid man who got rid of that owl for the sake of a few poults.

This works for nearly all raptors.

There are a few exeptions though some of our raptors are still in decline. Take the Merlin for example forestation of our uplands have caused the movement and decline of the Merlins main prey (skylarks and meadowpipits) so at the moment the Merlin is finding it hard to mentain levels.

So when someone posts"We currently have 8 frequently seen within a couple of hundred metres of each other. Too many IMO" you can take it for granted that what that person knows about the ecoleogy of our countryside could be written on the back of a postage stamp.

I suppose to sum up if you have a heathy preditor spiecies then you have plenty of prey and the countryside is working.

NO PREDITORS=NO PREY think about it.

 

 

As a post script to this i would like to add the words that are on the inside cover of the Shooting Times " THE WILD LIFE OF THIS COUNTRY IS NOT OURS TO DO WITH AS WE PLEASE. WE HOLD IT IN TRUST FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS.

[Fisherman Mike]

My thoughts entirely

 

FM

[El Nino]

F M it is not often we agree on anything. But for once i am in total agreement with you. For any raptor to inrease, There must be sufficiant food for it to do so. As there is only one hawk in britain that can consistantly take a full grown pheasant in the wild.

There must be another explanation why the raptors are increasing! There is!

There is more food for them now than there has been for many years.The advent of setaside is one good reason why some owls are on the increase, because that area will provide habitat for a number of small animals,voles, shrews etc: that those raptors need to mentain a healthy population. There are a mulitude of reasons why we should have a healthy poulation of raptors.

Think about this. One Tawny owl on a shoot. It may take a few small poults (usually the smallest and weakest that wont survive anyhow) but he also through out the year may take up to 200 rats. Now how much maize would those 200 rats eat in a year. A lot more than the cost of a few sickly poults. So it would be a stupid man who got rid of that owl for the sake of a few poults.

This works for nearly all raptors.

There are a few exeptions though some of our raptors are still in decline. Take the Merlin for example forestation of our uplands have caused the movement and decline of the Merlins main prey (skylarks and meadowpipits) so at the moment the Merlin is finding it hard to mentain levels.

So when someone posts"We currently have 8 frequently seen within a couple of hundred metres of each other. Too many IMO" you can take it for granted that what that person knows about the ecoleogy of our countryside could be written on the back of a postage stamp.

I suppose to sum up if you have a heathy preditor spiecies then you have plenty of prey and the countryside is working.

NO PREDITORS=NO PREY think about it.

 

 

As a post script to this i would like to add the words that are on the inside cover of the Shooting Times " THE WILD LIFE OF THIS COUNTRY IS NOT OURS TO DO WITH AS WE PLEASE. WE HOLD IT IN TRUST FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS.

Currently studying an ecology degree Tiercel so your guess on that one is somewhat unfounded. I love to see the buzzards in the sky, but when they take quite a high number of our pheasant poults, and we dont put many down anyway, the damage they cause is large in comparison to when they take the same amount of birds from a shoot which releases thousands of birds.

 

And when you say that if you have a healthy predator species then you have plenty of prey and the countryside was working. How true is this? We release at least hundreds of thousands of pheasants every year, artificially into the wild, providing a food source for many predators. Granted that poults may not be the staple food source of the predator species, they do supplement their natural diet. Would population numbers remain similar if we took all these pheasants out of the food chain?

[Gemini]

Mel, I’m just on the edge of Birmingham so there aren’t that many buzzards.

The Abdon shoot was a few miles further on from Bridgnorth, so I’m not surprised by the high numbers that you have seen there.

I have just been reading about a Red Kite that was found poisoned up in Cumbria. Apparently it was one that had been tagged and adopted by a local, school. The police suspect local gamekeepers, which, f it is true, doesn’t reflect well on the shooting fraternity, and has probably undone years of PR work by BASC.

Stupid ******. :<

G.M.

[El Nino]

Wasn't it in Northumberland? I saw it on the local news on tv. It does not reflect well if it was gamekeepers, but the circumstances in which it was found were a bit suspicious. It was found 100m from a public footpath next to a rabbit and a pheasant. Personally I cannot see a gamekeeper doping a bird and leaving it 100m from a public footpath. It may be gamekeepers which did it, it may not, but if it was they should be sacked

[Devilishdave]

Saw 6 Golden eagles circling in the inner Hebradies what an awsome sight.

Seen ospreys fishing when I have been out fishing, it is such a specticle that I di not even begrudge them the fish!!

 

Dave

[Nicky]

I had 3 buzzards over my decoys yesterday, spooked the pigeons to bits

[Roger_Rabbit]

Sorry Tiercel but I disagree with you on just about every thing ..

Quote "Too many IMO" you can take it for granted that what that person knows about the ecoleogy of our countryside could be written on the back of a postage stamp".

 

That to me smacks of an insult to the individual and totally uncalled for ..........

The forum is not for dishing out insults.

 

Quote " One Tawny owl on a shoot. It may take a few small poults (usually the smallest and weakest that wont survive anyhow) but he also through out the year may take up to 200 rats".

 

Rose coloured glasses comes to mind, I have seen our resident pair take full grown cock and hen pheasants in December and January. I've also seen them take healthy poults and cause stress damage to others.

 

Quote "As there is only one hawk in britain that can consistantly take a full grown pheasant in the wild".

 

Which one ?? I've seen Goshawk, Sparrow hawk and buzzard take mature pheasants on a regular basis. Only last month I saw a female sparrow hawk take one of our hen pheasants over a 40 - 50 yard chase.

 

Quote "There are a mulitude of reasons why we should have a healthy poulation of raptors".

 

Name another ?? (rats excluded)

 

The Game Conservancy Trust have stated the demise of the grey partridge can be in part be contributed to raptors and TGCT include kestrel. (4 year study)

 

For your information I attend the raptors game fair at Chetwynd Park every year and marval at these magnificent birds, my friend flies a Purlin (spelling?) but I fail too see the logic in releasing birds into the wild

[tiercel]

Roger rabbit lets see what you disagree with shall we.

 

No1 " One Tawny owl on a shoot. It may take a few small poults (usually the smallest and weakest that wont survive anyhow) but he also through out the year may take up to 200 rats".

 

You did not disagree with that stament mereley added to it.

 

No 2 "As there is only one hawk in britain that can consistantly take a full grown pheasant in the wild".

 

Do you know the meaning of the word consistently? I did not say that other hawks will not take full grown pheasants, if the oppertunity arrises.

 

No3 "There are a mulitude of reasons why we should have a healthy poulation of raptors".

 

There are, for with a healthy raptor presence you have a healthier prey spiecies also. That goes for all prey from worms to pheasants.

 

No 4 "The Game Conservancy Trust have stated the demise of the grey partridge can be in part be contributed to raptors and TGCT include kestrel.

 

Quite agree with the report. The main words of that statment that we should look at are "be in part". but also road kills ,foxes ,hedgehogs,magpies to name but a few all have contributed towards the decline of the grey partridge. So to single out raptors is a gross misrepesentation of what was published.

 

Think that covered the points you raised that you disagreed with.

 

Sorry there was one other point.

 

"That to me smacks of an insult to the individual and totally uncalled for ..........

The forum is not for dishing out insults.

 

"Robinson put the kids out too see how they would cope against an average Wales team but the state of the pitch prevented the youngsters playing their normal fast flowing passing game ..

 

As for the jocks they never looked like scoring .... what a poor French team, the worst I have ever seen, bet the manager does'nt last the series

 

Pity the jocks have an Aussie coach .... how the mighty have fallen

Pity the Welsh have an ..............................................................

 

Still .. the World Champs are rebuilding and the youngsters are learning their trade against the poorer teams before they do battle against the Southern Hemi"

 

The words glasshouses and stones come to mind.

 

PS for your information i dont attend falconry fairs. I prefer to fly my birds.

 

PPS who said anyone was releasing raptors into the wild. Just your imagination running away with you me thinks.

[Fisherman Mike]

I have seen our resident pair take full grown cock and hen pheasants in December and January.  I've seen Sparrow hawk and buzzard take mature pheasants on a regular basis. Only last month I saw a female sparrow hawk take one of our hen pheasants over a 40 - 50 yard chase.

although not impossible this would be very, very, very rare.

 

In 40 years of Ornithology I have never witnessed this. Are you sure they are Pheasants and not Quail

 

Sparrow hawks very rarely attack anything bigger than a Black bird for fear of injury. Buzzards dont normally hunt. Furthermore Tawny Owls are nocturnal Hunters and normally hunt from the canopy or a favoured perch to the ground, when Pheasants are normally tucked up for the night.

 

FM.

[tiercel]

F M i myself have seen a (Tame?) female spar take a hen pheasant, but that bird was a 3rd year bird that had a wealth of confidence built up over the previous two years. Also if the austringer had not been at hand the pheasant would have exscaped.

So obviously i could not disagree with buggsy. But i find it highly unlikly that a true wild bird weighing a mere 14oz soaking wet. Could catch and hold a 2 lb hen pheasant. I suppose if the pheasant was ill that would account for the spar being able to hold it long enough to kill it. Or there is another explanation that roger rabbit does not know the differance between a Goshawk and a S par.

[nicklowe]

i was calling crows in the woods using a rook call and two buzzards came diving down into the woods about 10 meters away from me, a pritty site but was quite scared, havig two buzzards thinking you are food isnt the best of things

[Roger_Rabbit]

Misrepresentation of some healthy sports banter but .....

Glass houses and stones does not come into it ..

 

I certainly know the difference between a sparrow hawk and a goshawk, havn't a clue what a spar is ?? assume it's just an abbreviation of sparrow hawk ??

 

Scenario; Mid afternoon, just finnished adding some feed to the pheasant hoppers propping up a fence post having a fag with a mate when springer puts up a hen not more than 10 yards away. Away goes the hen not more than 8 - 10 foot off the ground heading across a narrow field with a broken very low hedge at the far end. Didn't see where the Spar came from but she hit the hen as it was gliding down to land, waited a couple of minutes, dog on the lead, walked over to the 'hit', Spar takes off and lands in a tree 60 yards away, one dead hen left in situ.

 

Scenario; Mid morning, sitting under a low hawthorn tree with net hide 30 yards from a different pheasant pen with .22 rimfire ambushing crows, rooks and jackdaws feeding on pheasant food inside pen. Tawny number 1 arrives and settles in willow tree overlooking the pen, within a minute Tawny number 2 arrives and settles at the opposite end of the pen (oblong in shape). Both birds appeared identical in size when flying and at rest. Tawny number 1 sweeps into the pen after sitting in the willow for 3 - 4 mins, I didn't see the hit as it was below my line of vision, Tawny number 2 takes off immediatey followed by No1 with a 7 week old, previously healthy, but now dead poult in it's talons.

 

I disagree with you that "my" Tawnies take 200 rats a year ..

I disagree with you that "my" Tawnies don't survive without taking mature birds ..

We have a Buzzard nest in a pine tree inside our pheasant pen which has shown 10 young over the last 5 years which survive on our pheasants.

I diagree that Buzzards don't take mature live birds ..

I disagree with you about one hawk consistently taking pheasants ....

 

And don't patronise me by asking what does consistent mean ....

 

Goshawk; While feeding pheasants early morning, again having a fag sitting under a big oak, when the hawk struck on a woodland ride. Exactly the same scenario but late afternoon the following day on the same ride.

 

The inference to releasing raptors into the wild was with reference to the kite ......

 

I am sure we will continue this .... :yp:

 

PS. They fly all types of raptors at the game fair ....

[Fisherman Mike]

Tawny number 1 arrives and settles in willow tree overlooking the pen, within a minuet Tawny number 2 arrives and settles at the opposite end of the pen (oblong in shape). Both birds appeared identical in size when flying and at rest. Tawny number 1 sweeps into the pen after sitting in the willow for 3 - 4 mins, I didn't see the hit as it was below my line of vision, Tawny number 2 takes off immediatey followed by No1 with a 7 week old, previously healthy, but now dead poult in it's talons.

Why dont you get some roof netting?

[El Nino]

Tawny number 1 arrives and settles in willow tree overlooking the pen, within a minuet Tawny number 2 arrives and settles at the opposite end of the pen (oblong in shape). Both birds appeared identical in size when flying and at rest. Tawny number 1 sweeps into the pen after sitting in the willow for 3 - 4 mins, I didn't see the hit as it was below my line of vision, Tawny number 2 takes off immediatey followed by No1 with a 7 week old, previously healthy, but now dead poult in it's talons.

Why dont you get some roof netting?

SImple fact - cost

[Roger_Rabbit]

FM,

I have NO problem with raptors taking the birds, annoying most certainly but a fact of life. Unforetunatey it's not possible to know how many they take !!!!!!!!!!

 

Our solution(s) are flashing lights, the road works flashing amber type you see on bollards, but this could be the reason the Tawnies are active during the day

We have about 100 attached to the pen posts.

Additionally we keep the pen floor covered with branches etc. for preventing a landing strip to the owls.

 

To put a roof net on would require the lopping of mature beech, willow and sycamore which realy conservancy wise

 

The second pen where the buzzards nest would require the lopping of 6 mature Scots pine that at a guess must be 30 - 40 yo at least. Their nest is only about 20 foot up in a fork which appears to have been caused by a lightening strike :yp:

The chicks are clearly visable from the ground, (head and neck only) the parents fly off straight away but within second those long necks appear. Most spectacular when they leave the nest for the first time, fully feathered but unable to fly

 

My disagreement with Tiercel is based on the bias reperesentation that you cannot have too many raptors. I say you can :< :<

 

Plus I still think Tiercel owes someone an appology for the postage stamp remark.