chrispti Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 Bit late...............................threads 7 months old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethevanman Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 (edited) I belive around 1400-1600fps is about as fast as shotgun cartridges go But I think It does make a little bit of differance with lead...you notice this if you use some subsonic cartridges...But whatever cartridge you choose simply shoot with it alot and get good with it, if you then switch its hard to get back to the level of confidence. Steve Edited September 13, 2009 by stevethevanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Two bulls were in a field when the farmer turned loose some dry cows. One bull that was young and could run at 15ft/sec said to the other bull that was older and wiser but could only manage 12ft/sec, "Lets run down and give some of those cows a good seeing to". "No", said the old bull, "lets walk down and see to them all". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayslayer Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Where does this assumed information come from, I test fire many cartridges each day and the muzzel speeds of 1500 and 1450 feet per second quoted on the box seem in most cases to come from someone sitting at a desk thinking this sounds like a good speed. It means absolutly nothing. You need to now how fast the shot is travelling at v2 usually at 60 ft most clay loads are doing about1060 fps up to about 1110 fps and lead allowance alters by very little. The most important thing with any cartridge is, are you happy with them, do they feel good to you,are you happy with the price if you can say yes to all these points you will hit clays or game being faster than your last lot means nothing. Just because the box says they are faster means nothing and without speed measuring equipment your mate saying these are fast usually means nothing either.I can tell you the speed of most cartridges but it will not help you hit a target.Find one you are comfy with. 1180 fps at 60 ft is about the fastest you will find subsonic are about 850 to 900 fps at v2 .I find something like eley superb or vip trap hard to beat 1120 fps and 1140 fps at v2 smooth and clean killing at clays you will have to find your own as we all do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby b Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I ve just ordered 2000 express world cup 28g 7.5 and they are 1500fps they are one of the fastest clay cartridges ive seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I have just been playing with some home loads and have a batch of 75 runing @ 1400fps (been chronoed) just changed powder as its getting hard to get, will try them out on clays this sat BUT I have already knocked the powder back by a grain as I want 1300 max much easier on the shoulder. so another 75 to speed test then try on clays if they hit consistant and clean I will stick to these as my pigeon carts. my reloader knocks out 500 an hour KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burntout Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I have just been playing with some home loads and have a batch of 75 runing @ 1400fps (been chronoed) just changed powder as its getting hard to get, will try them out on clays this sat BUT I have already knocked the powder back by a grain as I want 1300 max much easier on the shoulder. so another 75 to speed test then try on clays if they hit consistant and clean I will stick to these as my pigeon carts. my reloader knocks out 500 an hour KW That thing looks incredible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burntout Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) page 33 of the Eley shooters Diary (very handy little book) gives some comparative figures for lead giving cartridge and bird velocity. in this instance High Velocity is taken as 1120ft/sec standard velocity as 1070ft/sec both using no. 6 shot. Bird crossing at 40mph (65kph) 30m - SV 1.89m HV 1.81m 35m - SV 2.26m HV 2.18m 40m - SV 2.68m HV 2.58m 45m - SV 3.29m HV 3.16m 50m - SV 3.97m HV 3.02m In this instance there is only a difference of 150ft/sec and we are seeing very little difference in lead required - however one can imagine from this that a difference of 2000ft/sec would have a serious affect on lead once you get out to 45metres. Of course, I'm currently an armchair shooter so am basing my comment purely on literature Edited October 29, 2009 by burntout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I see you are using an assortment of weak, medium and hot primers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I see you are using an assortment of weak, medium and hot primers! just two? the red tips are cheddite and the nearly all yellow are remington both 209 I simply look at the base when roll crimping and sort then, the carts with cheddites are about 200 fps faster than the remminton. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikee Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 kdubya nice looking machine is it a ponsness warren, my neighbor had one when i was a kid, i have 5 machines set up in my shed but only mec 600jr's for reloading steel shells for fowling and a few game shells my 70mm steel home loads for duck shooting are doing just over 1800fps, that's a 28g load in a federal gold medal case powered with Alli Steel, they kill ducks clean at over 50yds, i use extended full chokes and get good patterns with sam1 wads, if you load steel shells i'll pm you the data if youre interested mikee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 page 33 of the Eley shooters Diary (very handy little book) gives some comparative figures for lead giving cartridge and bird velocity. in this instance High Velocity is taken as 1120ft/sec standard velocity as 1070ft/sec both using no. 6 shot. Bird crossing at 40mph (65kph) 30m - SV 1.89m HV 1.81m 35m - SV 2.26m HV 2.18m 40m - SV 2.68m HV 2.58m 45m - SV 3.29m HV 3.16m 50m - SV 3.97m HV 3.02m In this instance there is only a difference of 150ft/sec and we are seeing very little difference in lead required - however one can imagine from this that a difference of 2000ft/sec would have a serious affect on lead once you get out to 45metres. Of course, I'm currently an armchair shooter so am basing my comment purely on literature fiqures you quote are subsonic loads? standard clay carts such as eley blues are 1254fps yes sad I know but we have chrono'd them! I consider anything over 1300 fps as fast, I am trying to get the most consistent loads @ 1300fps in 6 and 7.5 shot one load for crows and pheasant, one for clays and pigeon KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Thanks FC for asking about the mixed primers! I was just about to ask if kdubya likes taking a lucky dip, why not sort them into batches before you get some wild cards? =Good practice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Thanks FC for asking about the mixed primers! I was just about to ask if kdubya likes taking a lucky dip, why not sort them into batches before you get some wild cards? =Good practice yeah your dead right, but these where just the last of a box of pick ups and press out from strip downs,and those will be used for chrono tests onlyhopefully the remy's will be ok?,as all I have now are remington got a new batch at tim hannams on monday. oh and yes the reloader is a ponsness warren elite, it looks good now but it was a state when I got it KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 kdubya nice looking machine is it a ponsness warren, my neighbor had one when i was a kid, i have 5 machines set up in my shed but only mec 600jr's for reloading steel shells for fowling and a few game shells my 70mm steel home loads for duck shooting are doing just over 1800fps, that's a 28g load in a federal gold medal case powered with Alli Steel, they kill ducks clean at over 50yds, i use extended full chokes and get good patterns with sam1 wads, if you load steel shells i'll pm you the data if youre interested mikee whoa 1800!! steel need speed yes mate more than interested, oh and full choke steel interesting cheers KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Just curious, what's the pressure for your 1800fps steel load? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burntout Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 fiqures you quote are subsonic loads? standard clay carts such as eley blues are 1254fps yes sad I know but we have chrono'd them! I consider anything over 1300 fps as fast, I am trying to get the most consistent loads @ 1300fps in 6 and 7.5 shot one load for crows and pheasant, one for clays and pigeon KW As I say, I was quoting, they did seem quite low especially for the latter to be classed as HV? Velocity aside I was more interested in the change in lead based upon velocity, as mentioned earlier in the thread and was using these numbers for this more than anything. I'm learning alot from threads like this so keep up the good work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardy_bradderz Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) Just curious, what's the pressure for your 1800fps steel load? Surely they will be into magnum proof pressures, as I know 1600 fps is getting close to the max for standard 2 3/4" proof at 28 grams, leaving a reasonable margin for error. This is why I believe you don't see such loads as you describe available factory loaded, under CIP rules they would have to be in a 3" case even though they are 28g. Brad Edited October 30, 2009 by beardy_bradderz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Surely they will be into magnum proof pressures, as I know 1600 fps is getting close to the max for standard 2 3/4" proof at 28 grams, leaving a reasonable margin for error. This is why I believe you don't see such loads as you describe available factory loaded, under CIP rules they would have to be in a 3" case even though they are 28g. Brad you would be surprised? looking at the carts used and alliant steel as the powder I bet he is not much over 9000 psi if at all allied's own site give recipe's for 1oz (28gram) and 70mm cases @ 1790 fps @9000psi, got to be worth a bash for the duck. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikee Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Just curious, what's the pressure for your 1800fps steel load? the load produces about 13000psi=900bar, i found the chrono readings from the last batch i tested a couple of years ago inside the chrono box, they are doing just short of 1800fps, 5 shots 1760-1795fps, i got the data from a US based reloading site mikee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) the load produces about 13000psi=900bar, i found the chrono readings from the last batch i tested a couple of years ago inside the chrono box, they are doing just short of 1800fps, 5 shots 1760-1795fps, i got the data from a US based reloading site mikee If you drop the Allliant powder and use commercial 381 in a similar known wildcat load you will drop 150 bar off the pressure and only lose 40 or 50 ft per sec, so that is a good trade off if any one is concerned about pressure. Long as you are knocking the loads out of a 3" gun you will be fine. Alliant steel is a good powder but expensive in comparison to 381,356 & CSBO I have to say I can't get a reading to 1800 ft sec out of a 12, but I have achieved a consistant 1680 out of the 10 with 4.5mm....... Edited November 2, 2009 by starlight32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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