Will Beasley Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Can I just say for the record officially one more time that Georges field WAS NOT baited!! It was fresh cut field of rape stubble and a complete and utter coincidence/accident that it happened. The old man knew it would be a good field but not quite "that good" There have been several people who have actually beaten Georges offcial bag of 661 but refused to stake their claim to the record for fear of too much adverse publicity, which is somewhat understandable. Anyhow just to deviate a little.... why is baiting a field viewed in such a dim light? Surely when a farmer sows a field and spills grain he is, for all intents and purposes, "baiting". Some farmers in my area are actually now prepared to "bait" a field (i.e set-a-side) to divert the pigeons attention away from growing crops, or grow a sacrificial crop like maize again to divert their attention away from the important crop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Everyone loads of responses great stuff. Salopian, thanks agreed interesting banter. Your thoughts on a table is a great idea and I am happy to compile this if there is a consensus it would be of value. I'm happy to publish here if there is enough interest? I am however a little uneasy about "league tables", this infers something that is competitive and solely about the numbers of birds shot. As I see things it would be better to compile a table that focuses more on the more important factors like the conditions in which the birds were shot,weather,pre survey details, etc. I shoot, and above all i'd like to be thought of as a countryman in preference to a record holder. "Records" do not need to be the most shot (birds), they can be about the "how" as well. Cheers all. PS What would you want to see in any table? If at all? e.g. District: (county) Location (nearest town) Method : (Over Decoys: Roost Shoot: Walked Up: Flight Line) Weather: (?) etc. Please post your views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 i would certainly be intrested, possibly gun and gauge as well, partnered or not, dog or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Will, What's is all this baited stuff about? Thanks for your post. OK if a drill spills a bit more on a corner etc. that's how it is. I bet Goerge doesn't feel any pressure, that's the main thing. With all this **** you wants to publcise the bid days anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Whitebridges, George Digweed did have a rather good day organised by Phil Beesley, this was featured in Shooting Gazette.Subsequently been bettered by a guy from Lincolnshire twice.Could find the articles if you wish but I find it boring.As I have posted many times, shooting should be up the hedgerow, kill a few, prop 'em up,kill a few more, go home and clean and cook 'em.Unless your doing pest control of cause.But baiting a field aint pest control in my humble opinion. How true you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Sorry to go slightly off topic but has anyone on the forums ever met or shot with the legendary Archie Coates ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Salopian, Tell me about it, we are even struggeling for a bit of half decent roost shooting in north shrops. Last year was great on the rape, not so good for the farmer though! Where in shrops are you from? C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Sorry to go slightly off topic but has anyone on the forums ever met or shot with the legendary Archie Coates ?. A bit before my time afraid but I have heard on good authority that Cranfield gave him some good advice when he was a lad. I am sure that Cranners will clarify this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Sorry to go slightly off topic but has anyone on the forums ever met or shot with the legendary Archie Coates ?. A bit before my time afraid but I have heard on good authority that Cranfield gave him some good advice when he was a lad. I am sure that Cranners will clarify this So is old Cranners actually related to Methusalah (sorry if spelling incorrect). If he was old enough to be lecturing AC he must be a venerable shootist indeed !!!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Brilliant,This is what I believe the forum is all about,real good debate and interaction. Whitebridges when I suggested a league table I was thinkinking along the lines of a referance to who's done what ,where & when, but your ideas seem good to me.Paul in N/Lincs & Fisherman Mike don't take the pee out of Hillbilly, you know how tuochy some people get on this forum!!!!! anyway hillbilly was using a 14 shot S/A Magnum with 2" shells so when fully loaded he had 27 aboard I know 'cause I was using my magnum wildfowling O/U 6 shot Shogun I am a Novaportan Old Rooster I have shot many times with the Major and had a few *****ckings, Lurcherboy, thanks appreciate your comment. Finally Will don't get so touchy you know they are only winding you up (baiting you) don't tell me Will, Shootwarehouse are now selling Millet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Can I just say for the record officially one more time that Georges field WAS NOT baited!! It was fresh cut field of rape stubble and a complete and utter coincidence/accident that it happened. The old man knew it would be a good field but not quite "that good" There have been several people who have actually beaten Georges offcial bag of 661 but refused to stake their claim to the record for fear of too much adverse publicity, which is somewhat understandable. Anyhow just to deviate a little.... why is baiting a field viewed in such a dim light? Surely when a farmer sows a field and spills grain he is, for all intents and purposes, "baiting". Some farmers in my area are actually now prepared to "bait" a field (i.e set-a-side) to divert the pigeons attention away from growing crops, or grow a sacrificial crop like maize again to divert their attention away from the important crop. Fair comment Will.... A very good post . However there is a very big difference between deliberate and indeliberate baiting of fields. When a Farmer sows rape seed, maize, peas, beans, barley or wheat by modern methods the drilling equipment is much more efficient than it was say 30 years ago in the 70,s when you could walk over any newly sown field and see copious quantities of spilled seed. These days the attraction to freshly drilled fields is minimal, at least it is in my area. Setaside as you probably know is a way of reducing the impact of agricultural surplus in cereal productiuon in the UK and EU ( see link below) but it does, as you rightly say give the opportunity for farmers to divert Pigeon from the main crop by depositing grain or similar. I know this has been done on one local farm where I shoot, the farmer has grown a cash crop of Sunflower and selectively jettisoned a quantity of barley on the adjacent seta side. I shot the setaside strip a couple of times and it was very good and had the desired effect of keeping the pigeons off the newly sown sunflower. The difference essentially being "baiting to divert rather than baiting to decoy." I just happened to be there at the right time. However I still dont agree with "Baiting" for shooting sake.. That is not pest control and most definately not sporting. Any one who does this should have their balls shaved and smeared with deep heat.. SETASIDE FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Can I register my lathe and milling machine as "set aside" ?, seems like a great idea to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 This thread is becoming a perfect example of Forum "derailing". Starts off talking about record bags and ends up looking for distant relatives of Archie Coates. To set the record straight, I am younger in years than Ern and a few others on here. I never met Archie Coates, but I have met (and fished with) Jack Charlton, who did meet Archie Coates, so perhaps that counts. Getting back to record pigeon bags; I don't think for one moment, that anyone really believed that the field was deliberately baited for George Digweeds big day and now that Will has told us it certainly wasn't, all is well in the World. Keeping a meaningful record of bags on here, relies on total honesty by all participants. Any long time members of Pigeon Watch, will know that some contributors have problems with matters numerate, whether its bag numbers, shooting range, or whatever. Thats why, in my opinion, it wouldn't work (sadly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 think it was around 660 shot over sown beans. There are many who believe it was shot over a "baited" field, in fact I think this has been admitted. Still good shooting though. Yes I know this to be true FM. Sorry to Will & All concerned. I have just read my earlier post again and it has come out incorrectly and could be misconstrued. What I meant to say was... "I understand this to be true", meaning that many believe the field was baited. Will has kindly confirmed that this was infact not the case so that is good enough for me. I certainly did not intend to cast aspertions on the integrity of either George or Phil Beasley FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Beasley Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 OK Mike that is why I was defending that Georges bag wasnt deliberate i.e on a baited field. I thought you meant that you knew the feild was baited. Anyway moving on with all integrity intact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 I never met Archie Coates, but I have met (and fished with) Jack Charlton, who did meet Archie Coates, so perhaps that counts. I hope you didn't join young Mr. Charlton in not buying a rod licence Mr. Cranfield ??. I seem to recall that he got a hefty fine for that heinous antisocial offence. Perhaps if he'd mentioned that he knew Archie Coates or indeed your good self he would have got off more lightly ?. Whoops, the thread now leaving platform 3 has been derailed Abject apologies to all, I've been sampling a rather pleasant bottle of port and now appear sillier than usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Can I just say for the record officially one more time that Georges field WAS NOT baited!! It was fresh cut field of rape stubble and a complete and utter coincidence/accident that it happened. The old man knew it would be a good field but not quite "that good" There have been several people who have actually beaten Georges offcial bag of 661 but refused to stake their claim to the record for fear of too much adverse publicity, which is somewhat understandable. Anyhow just to deviate a little.... why is baiting a field viewed in such a dim light? Surely when a farmer sows a field and spills grain he is, for all intents and purposes, "baiting". Some farmers in my area are actually now prepared to "bait" a field (i.e set-a-side) to divert the pigeons attention away from growing crops, or grow a sacrificial crop like maize again to divert their attention away from the important crop. Fair comment Will.... A very good post . However there is a very big difference between deliberate and indeliberate baiting of fields. When a Farmer sows rape seed, maize, peas, beans, barley or wheat by modern methods the drilling equipment is much more efficient than it was say 30 years ago in the 70,s when you could walk over any newly sown field and see copious quantities of spilled seed. These days the attraction to freshly drilled fields is minimal, at least it is in my area. Setaside as you probably know is a way of reducing the impact of agricultural surplus in cereal productiuon in the UK and EU ( see link below) but it does, as you rightly say give the opportunity for farmers to divert Pigeon from the main crop by depositing grain or similar. I know this has been done on one local farm where I shoot, the farmer has grown a cash crop of Sunflower and selectively jettisoned a quantity of barley on the adjacent seta side. I shot the setaside strip a couple of times and it was very good and had the desired effect of keeping the pigeons off the newly sown sunflower. The difference essentially being "baiting to divert rather than baiting to decoy." I just happened to be there at the right time. However I still dont agree with "Baiting" for shooting sake.. That is not pest control and most definately not sporting. Any one who does this should have their balls shaved and smeared with deep heat.. SETASIDE FM. I know this is really off the subject FM, but I would like to know if you think pre-baiting a swim is also bad form, purely out of curiousity? LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted February 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 I'll make a list of the big 'ol bags if you like? Could easily stick it ou on the 'net for folk to disagree with. The offers there. Won't do it if it's a waste of time. Loads going on on this thread that should be posted elsewhere (with respect). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 old rooster, I fished with Jack Charlton in Connemara, Ireland (no licence necessary) on the Delphi Fishery for sea trout. Richard Harris and John Hurt were staying at the same hotel, as they were filming "The Field", just up the road. This place is in the middle of nowhere, what a coincidence to have four world famous people there at the same time. That must have been about 1990. Whitebridges, if threads get a bit confusing, Ern comes along and sorts them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 I'll make a list of the big 'ol bags if you like? Could easily stick it ou on the 'net for folk to disagree with. The offers there. Won't do it if it's a waste of time.Loads going on on this thread that should be posted elsewhere (with respect). Sorry mate..........I'll get me coat. Never intended to be a hijacker. :*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 FM. I know this is really off the subject FM, but I would like to know if you think pre-baiting a swim is also bad form, purely out of curiousity? LB LB... Slight difference in as much as we dont kill the fish we catch. Personally I dont prebait swims when im fishing but I dont disagree with it as long as its done sensibly. FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fert Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 record bags aye an old timer who lives up the road from me used to shoot 20.000 pigeons a year could have shot for england but didnt have the money to go on the trials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 FM. I know this is really off the subject FM, but I would like to know if you think pre-baiting a swim is also bad form, purely out of curiousity? LB LB... Slight difference in as much as we dont kill the fish we catch. Personally I dont prebait swims when im fishing but I dont disagree with it as long as its done sensibly. FM. FM, I know it is different re; live or die, but not to an anti. I sometimes spend 2-3 weeks creating a 'hot spot' when I am carping. Of course I enjoy good sport as a result of the baiting programme. Many people think this is wrong, but I don't, as the fish are returned after being photographed, weighed and treated with ******* if they are damaged. Still people think it is undesirable to pre-bait. I disagree and find that pre-baiting for pigeons is acceptable. We are here to shoot the farmers vermin, are we not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul in North Lincs. Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Fert Thats got to be about 55 pigeons a day for 365 days................... I think your man is another contender for the 'Jackanory Story of the Year Award'!!! Paul in North Lincs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Still people think it is undesirable to pre-bait. I disagree and find that pre-baiting for pigeons is acceptable. We are here to shoot the farmers vermin, are we not? True enough but within the constraints of the General Licence.. It would be easy for Antis to argue, quite rightly that there would be the possibility of drawing pigeons to areas they would not normally feed just to be shot, infact areas where they wouldnt be a nuisance to crops. I suppose when you think about it logically we are infact prebaiting by using decoys or a rotary. Fm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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