jayward Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 My first point is this is a very very sad incident and i for one think the tragic appalling incident will surely impact on the lives of many we can not fully know the circumstances surmising is pointless and futile .. Which brings me to my second point we do not know the full circumstances as we have mostly heard this via media reports , Well known to be inaccurate and incomplete yet it seems many posters seem to base there ill conceived and in my view ignorant views based purely upon what they heave read and that alone ... Many views i see are relating to certain types of dogs and stereotypes ! Could i ask if you form all your views and strongly put points on any concrete EVIDENCE or just what you read or see in the media ? ive been unfortunate enough to be bitten around 5-6 times that i can recall !! And not once by the dogs targeted in this thread ... whilst i don't consider that take me an expert .One thing I do know To be a fact many media story's are inaccurate and misleading . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeinVA Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Get yourself a lab or a Goldren Retriever These dogs are well mannered and love children.. I think when people get dogs that have a long lineage as fighters? I think they are gambling with the dog and with safety of others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myzeneye Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) lee, your missing the point completely mate... its nothing to do with the breed, dogs are for all intent and purposes, wolves. all of them have an instinct to defend them selves or attack weather the reason be fear or malice... the difference is the amount of damage the particular dog can inflict if it should attack. now in my opinion, there are many many dogs which could attack a 3 month old baby and cause fatal injuries... all as likely to attack as the other... the point being, who in there right mind would leave a 3 month old baby alone and unsupervised with a wolf regardless of the size of its teeth staffs are great with kids, genuinely well mannered and patient... but as with shotguns, occasionally, one in the wrong hands results in a fatality. as for the "long line of fighters".... it may have been bred for that many years ago, but the dog was bred and the insticnt wich is in all dogs was encouraged... now days, most domestic example of the breed are bred for temprement alone...granted, some vile individuals will still exploit the breed and breed them for fighting etc, but that is a minority...like i said, like ilegal gun users.... lets think about what other breeds have been bread for and then question weather they should be predudiced against for this... my old man owns a border terrier... HUGE teeth and a strong jaw... terrier instincts with small things, i wouldnt like a bite of her... borders were bread to fight foxes, and they a viscious as hell so for all intents and purposes, bread to fight a strong and worthy oppnent..... should we ban border terriers.... no ,dont be silly. what about bulldogs.... ha dont make me laugh... what on earth could a bull dog do to a bull these days ??? breathe heavy at it ?? would it have an instinct to fight with a bull or would it behave like any other dog around one... finally... what about all the rescue staffs that have turned up half eaten because its refused to fight when its been stolen and thrown in some ***** dog fighting circle... it happens all the time... they have a beast of a dog which they have encouraged to fight ,probably through many cruel methods...dogs go missing all the time and they use them to train their fighter or see if the stolen dog has any "heart" .... often they wont fight at all and are left mutilated...usually they are finished off with a shovel or on one documentry i saw, they wired the dog into the mains to finish it off.. these are the dregs of society who exploit the breed...sadly, it happens.... but most people who own them, have them in loving caring homes, with children and they are loyal, friendly, dogs. some times highly strung,and energetic, sometimes docile and lazy.... Edited February 8, 2009 by myzeneye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeinVA Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 lee, your missing the point completely mate... its nothing to do with the breed, dogs are for all intent and purposes, wolves. all of them have an instinct to defend them selves or attack weather the reason be fear or malice... the difference is the amount of damage the particular dog can inflict if it should attack. now in my opinion, there are many many dogs which could attack a 3 month old baby and cause fatal injuries... all as likely to attack as the other... the point being, who in there right mind would leave a 3 month old baby alone and unsupervised with a wolf regardless of the size of its teeth staffs are great with kids, genuinely well mannered and patient... but as with shotguns, occasionally, one in the wrong hands results in a fatality. My apologies Thats what i get for jumping in early in the day with out my coffee.. Thanks bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Get yourself a lab or a Goldren Retriever These dogs are well mannered and love children.. I think when people get dogs that have a long lineage as fighters? I think they are gambling with the dog and with safety of others sorry,but i have to disagree.i have a scar under my right eye from being bitten by a lab as a kid.i do however believe certain dogs can be dangerous,and that alot of the owners of these breeds are irresponsible.my brother has 2 staffies which fortunately are great with his 3 young kids.but this is pure luck as they have no training or manners,and are allowed to do as they please.i own an 18 month old lab who is trained and soft as ****,but i wouldnt trust her with young children.the way i see it is people who choose to buy breeds of dog that can be dangerous(i.e. staffies,rotties,german shepheards.....)should be vetted and have to meet certain requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Pushing breed aside-the problem stems from people thinking of their dogs as human family members which they certainly are not.No matter how playful,loving,obedient or loyal-a dog is all they can be and can only act as such.If people think their dog is 100% trustworthy they they are wrong because you can only ever trust them 99% at best-the last percentage will always be a spontaneous animal who does not act on reason. So whether you have a Labrador,GSD,Pug or a Staffie-it makes no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myzeneye Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 My apologies Thats what i get for jumping in early in the day with out my coffee.. Thanks bud no worries lee...get that coffe down yer neck and get with the programme .... Get yourself a lab or a Goldren Retriever These dogs are well mannered and love children.. I think when people get dogs that have a long lineage as fighters? I think they are gambling with the dog and with safety of others sorry,but i have to disagree.i have a scar under my right eye from being bitten by a lab as a kid.i do however believe certain dogs can be dangerous,and that alot of the owners of these breeds are irresponsible.my brother has 2 staffies which fortunately are great with his 3 young kids.but this is pure luck as they have no training or manners,and are allowed to do as they please.i own an 18 month old lab who is trained and soft as ****,but i wouldnt trust her with young children.the way i see it is people who choose to buy breeds of dog that can be dangerous(i.e. staffies,rotties,german shepheards.....)should be vetted and have to meet certain requirements. no mate, with no training you can safely say in this case,they're a good example of the breed, they are great with kids by instinct... a little highly strung maybe, as the breed often is with out strict obedience training, they are quite energetic and easily excited... but in a totally playfull mannor i might add.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustyfox Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 you sound just like an anti mate. you admit you hate the dogs and have never owned one, so how can you spout this nonsense at people who do own them (not myself) and expect everyone to take your seriousley? I have never owned one because I have seen what they can do. So how is it nonsense. I know an owner of a staff as he walked past me walking my dog he said "is that a bitch or a dog, my dog doesnt get on with other dogs". Your dog aint been attacked by them I'm guessing? until the day it does in which I hope it doesn't you will see why I'm like this. Sound like an anti what you on. Yeah fair enough there are some goodens out there but people will always remember the baddens. Not really fair on other dog owners who have to suffer with the consequences. ok, lets look at things from a different angle. the argument here, is that the breed can inflict devastating damage during an attack. granted. and also that the breed on the whole should be banned becuase they are a dangerous dog. a very small percentage of these dogs turn on people and the consequences have been devastating. but also, alot of chavvy types have them for the sole intention of having them nasty for the use of protection. o.k... most people here own a shotgun. these things in the wrong hands are lethal. granted. however, a small percentage of people will take one into a post office and shoot the poor old dear behind the counter. the consequences being, devastating. some of the chavvy types own shotguns or air rifles and have the sole intention of using them for protection or attack.... you see the link here... just because some people cant behave or have their pet behave normally doesnt mean everyone is bad. calls for the breed to be banned are no different to calls for all guns should be smelted. its really that simple. kids on the street have guns, fact . look at shaun mercer in the reece jones case.... and im not talking about pop guns either....some of the gear they have would make our cabinets look like spud guns. so because these few act irresponsibly with guns, and kids are getting shot with devastating consequences, does it mean guns should be banned. (obviously, its the last thing i want, and im talking metaphorically to get a point across) knives , should we be allowed to carry/use them because some individuals dont know how to act responsibly with them....cars too.... alchohol.... the list goes on and on.... for the record, i can control my dog, if i ever needed to that is. but i hope you can see it differently with this in mind....cos im hearing some pretty unjust, unhinged arguments here against my dog.... the same sort of drivvel i hear from the anti loon brigade. One thing different you have to apply to get your Shotgun, police are not gonna give a SGC to a Chav with a criminal history are they. Anybody can get a Staffordshire bull terrier and as I said earlier would it be long before EVERYONE has to have a licence to get a dog due to these attacks? Im no anti I just want to walk my dog down the street and be safe. Those attacks have mentally scarred me thats why im like this, forgive me if I do sound like an anti. Get yourself a lab or a Goldren Retriever These dogs are well mannered and love children.. I think when people get dogs that have a long lineage as fighters? I think they are gambling with the dog and with safety of others And that is well said. Thankyou. Now the Nanny breed excuse is coming in great with children isnt a Lab great with children? Still cant find a story of a lab killing a child in the UK. Which one would I choose, a breed that is been called the Nanny dog by the owners but the breed has killed children or a Lab that you can work and has a use? Ask again why do people want Staffordshire bull terriers? Only answer i got so far is they hold the world record for the monst amount of rats caught in so much time. df Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myzeneye Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) dogs of that breed have it in them naturally. any "fighting" dog is one that needs to be watched. funny how you never hear of labs or collies going postal.Ironic as it seems people say its the owners who are dangerous. who would you trust? the skinhead with the staffie, tattoos on knuckles ect, or the guy with the lab, who happens to have a room full of guns? sums it up really. http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...&hl=monster mart, come on mate... you posted a thread about your brothers dog "monster" i believe he was called...not a staff either... its dogs and people like this who need taking to task..our bennys never shown ANY sign of aggression to anyone... ever....... aprt from a railway worker who came trotting down the line which runs parralell to our house late one nightand took him by suprise as he was obviously, not a train and shouldnt have been there... benny gave a bark and stuck his chest out, as im sure any dog would do... with a "hey!,behave!" he reverted inediatly back to his state of passiveness.... daft as a brush.. http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm189/m...38f008407_b.jpg gentle, loyal and obedient.... ( these days, puppy phase of chewing and destruction has gone, thank god !!) Edited February 8, 2009 by myzeneye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 the way i see it is people who choose to buy breeds of dog that can be dangerous(i.e. staffies,rotties,german shepheards.....)should be vetted and have to meet certain requirements. i think anyone that buys any type of dog should have to be licenced, sames as with guns - im sick of idiots letting their dogs run riot and then hearing the old excuse - he's never done that before! my ex's mother had a miniature german schnauzer that attacked 3 kids; was it put down? no. the reasons were... 1 tina doesnt like prams, thats why she attacked. 2 the little girl had curly hair like a mop, and tina doesnt like mops. 3 she was just having an off day and was grumpy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 I would have the dog put down for being called "Tina". Mind you, I knew a jack russel called Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojusa Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 No dog should be left alone with very small children, regardless of the breed. I go with this statement as nobody truly knows their dog would never attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirnovember Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 I'm all for dog licences. It would stop most of the attacks as well as countless cases of abuse and neglect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myzeneye Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) I have never owned one because I have seen what they can do. So how is it nonsense. I know an owner of a staff as he walked past me walking my dog he said "is that a bitch or a dog, my dog doesnt get on with other dogs". Your dog aint been attacked by them I'm guessing? until the day it does in which I hope it doesn't you will see why I'm like this. Sound like an anti what you on. Yeah fair enough there are some goodens out there but people will always remember the baddens. Not really fair on other dog owners who have to suffer with the consequences. One thing different you have to apply to get your Shotgun, police are not gonna give a SGC to a Chav with a criminal history are they. Anybody can get a Staffordshire bull terrier and as I said earlier would it be long before EVERYONE has to have a licence to get a dog due to these attacks? Im no anti I just want to walk my dog down the street and be safe. Those attacks have mentally scarred me thats why im like this, forgive me if I do sound like an anti. And that is well said. Thankyou. Now the Nanny breed excuse is coming in great with children isnt a Lab great with children? Still cant find a story of a lab killing a child in the UK. Which one would I choose, a breed that is been called the Nanny dog by the owners but the breed has killed children or a Lab that you can work and has a use? Ask again why do people want Staffordshire bull terriers? Only answer i got so far is they hold the world record for the monst amount of rats caught in so much time. df dusty,, do you really think the guy who goes in the post office with a shotgun has it on a license??? do you think sean mercer had his hand gun for lagitamate reasons.... if a wrongun wants a gun, he'l get it in rag time mate. no problems... i havent heard of any one being killed by a lab, but i have heard of many people being attacked by them... the fatalities cauased by a few ,probably ill treated or unhinged staffs, make the head lines, everytime. and rightly so mate... but the other attacks by other breeds which happen all the time every day infact dont make the news....doesnt mean it doesnt happen mate....come on ..... i have a shot gun. im perfectly safe with it. i have a staff, he's well behaved and very freindly, unlikely to attack...genuinely. im not alone , most are the same. however, some people have shotguns, and you wouldnt want to cross them, they may also have staffs which you also wouldnt want to cross due to the mentallity which has been instilled in them.... my dog has been attacked when out by other dogs, including a bijon frise style dog, and a labrador... luckily, he doesnt seen to have held any grudges or been phsycologically damaged by the attacks...but he easily could have...as yours was... Edited February 8, 2009 by myzeneye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustyfox Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) I'm all for dog licences. It would stop most of the attacks as well as countless cases of abuse and neglect. I kinda like the sound of a dog licence but the government will try and make maximum profit from it imagine 7 million dogs x like £50. And there will probably be a rise in dog thefts as the ones who cant get them will get them another way. An age limit on owning a dog probably be better and restrictions on types of breeds like muzzles and must be kept on lead at all times in public areas. Edited February 8, 2009 by dustyfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myzeneye Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 it was mentioned that the few dogs who have killed have been remembered and have lead the breed to be demonised as killers.... well, i give you, michael ryan. a lagit liscensed gun owner ( i believe) ...should we ban all guns because of this bad example ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 I'm all for dog licences. It would stop most of the attacks as well as countless cases of abuse and neglect. The problem is-not everyone would bother getting a licence.This is why it was scrapped before. Besides,a dog licence would only really be effective if there were people to police it and because that would cost money for staff-it aint gonna happen.Take my local council for example-they have one dog warden whos area covers 3 towns and well over 3 dozen villages so you can understand why nothing gets done. Im not against the principal of licencing,but at present-it would be seriously flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 it was mentioned that the few dogs who have killed have been remembered and have lead the breed to be demonised as killers....well, i give you, michael ryan. a lagit liscensed gun owner ( i believe) ...should we ban all guns because of this bad example ... He shoots, he scores!!!!!!!! Fatcatsplat (also an owner of one of Satan's four legged spawn.........one which is also a complete pussy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myzeneye Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 all dogs should be kept on leads out side, agreed...you cant predict how any dog will behave with another strange dog...reguardless of breed.... muzzles are a bit excessive, as my dogs always on his lead and would only get chance to bite another dog if it were of its own lead and attacking my dog himself... people look down their noses at me and benny when were out, but ther own dogs are the ones who are acting irrationally... bad press, spoon fed to the gullible. the kind of predudicve which says all scousers are thieves, all irish thick, all scots drunk smack heads... etc etc ...or, all gun owners blood thirsty maniacs with small *****... you know the usual trip you hear... ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radio1ham Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 i guess all dogs can turn nasty but i guess dogs and kids dont really mix sometimes so in a word best be safe than sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myzeneye Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 He shoots, he scores!!!!!!!! Fatcatsplat (also an owner of one of Satan's four legged spawn.........one which is also a complete pussy) i thank you kind sir.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustyfox Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 i have a shot gun. im perfectly safe with it. i have a staff, he's well behaved and very freindly, unlikely to attack...genuinely. im not alone , most are the same. however, some people have shotguns, and you wouldnt want to cross them, they may also have staffs which you also wouldnt want to cross due to the mentallity which has been instilled in them.... my dog has been attacked when out by other dogs, including a bijon frise style dog, and a labrador... luckily, he doesnt seen to have held any grudges or been phsycologically damaged by the attacks...but he easily could have...as yours was... The government needs to be tough, they need to show an example any dog that has injured or killed somebody should be put down and the owner a jail sentence and a hefty fine and compensation for the victim and pay up the costs of surgery to the victim if they have been scarred by the dog. No if's No but's If you believe that your dog is safe and wouldnt touch a fly you would agree with me. This way hopefully the scum who's dogs attack should suffer the consequences and make them think twice of owning a dog that is not suitable for them. df Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulf Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Its a sad fact that accidents happen, blaming it on dog breeds as the media frequently do is a nonsense. Personally I don't think legislation will make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myzeneye Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 The government needs to be tough, they need to show an example any dog that has injured or killed somebody should be put down and the owner a jail sentence and a hefty fine and compensation for the victim and pay up the costs of surgery to the victim if they have been scarred by the dog. No if's No but's If you believe that your dog is safe and wouldnt touch a fly you would agree with me. This way hopefully the scum who's dogs attack should suffer the consequences and make them think twice of owning a dog that is not suitable for them. df is that regardless of breed dusty mate ? im sure that is what you mean.... i have an apprentice at work... he's a bad case, come from social services been in care all his life.... he's a typical dead head kid of today, been in plenty of trouble all his life... his social worker has been round to his flat(witch they pay for incidentally) and insisted he gets rid of his 8 week old staff pup as he has an 18 minth old son who visits.... totally the right move by social services.... not because the 8 week old pup is a threat, but beacause the owner, the lad will more than likely bring it up poorly..... theese are the cases wich need addressing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 An age limit on owning a dog probably be better and restrictions on types of breeds like muzzles and must be kept on lead at all times in public areas. all dogs should be kept on leads out side, agreed...you cant predict how any dog will behave with another strange dog...reguardless of breed....muzzles are a bit excessive, as my dogs always on his lead and would only get chance to bite another dog if it were of its own lead and attacking my dog himself... i dont agree with muzzles, my dogs are kept on a lead all the time when out and are under control. im not putting muzzles on my rotties for some berk's labradooble which isnt on a lead to attack them and leave them unable to fight back. leads are sufficient. one thing nones mentioned, but theres one person who comes into contact with more types of dogs than any other person - vets. anytime my two need injections, etc, i always take a muzzle with me, not for the dog, but to reassure the vet. everytime ive suggested putting the muzzle on them the vet has looked at me like im a martian, and told me rotties are one of the dogs theyre least afraid of and have never been bitten by! my local surgery has a steady flow of vets through it (part of a chain) and all of them have told me the same thing!!! however, i can remember a vet trying to muzzle my mums pekingese with a bandage years ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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