markbivvy Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 this needs reading by us all DEFRA Legal change - You may only shoot pigeons after attempts to scare them away?? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Open General Licences allow the control of certain birds including woodpigeons, rooks, crows, magpies and other pest species. DEFRA has made changes to the licences without proper consultation and included a new condition that the licences: "can only be relied upon in circumstances where the authorised person can demonstrate that appropriate non-lethal methods of control such as scaring are either ineffective or impracticable". The implication of this condition would seem to be that scaring devices such as scarecrows and gas guns must be tried before shooting species such as woodpigeons. All wild birds are protected under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. However, section 16 of the Act permits the issue of licences to control protected species of birds for specific purposes, for example, preventing damage to crops or preserving public health and safety or preserving air safety. In certain situations the DEFRA issues general licences instead of requiring all potential licensees to apply for an individual licence. The purpose of a general licence is to cover situations where the DEFRA is satisfied that there is no other satisfactory solution and that any "authorised" person would find applying for an individual licence an overly burdensome and bureaucratic task to permit an action that would be routinely approved. General licences are issued on an annual basis. From the 1st March 2005 there are a number of changes to open general licences in England, these include: · A new condition of demonstrating non-lethal alternatives. The licence can only be relied upon in circumstances where the authorised person can demonstrate that appropriate non-lethal methods of control such as scaring are either ineffective or impracticable. The Countryside Alliance is urgently seeking further clarification from DEFRA on what this actual means. · The house sparrow and starling are to be removed from the list of species due to conservation concerns. · The additon of the Canada Goose to the list of species on certain general licences, the provision for them will apply only in their close season and for purposes stated on the general licence. · Additional inspection requirments and welfare conditions covering the use of cage traps. Live-catch traps will have to be inspected at least once every 24 hours and only crow, jackdaw, jay, magpie and rook may be used as decoy birds. Further details on the changes to the Open General Licence are available from the DEFRA website. Amendments for General Licences 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fert Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 BOO!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 lol......how sad our country is........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davhope Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Presumably that could constitute the first barrel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco you missed another one Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Hold on everybody, Before winding up people you have to make sure of the information that you post on the topic thats why I've checked with BASC. Please go and read the news in the BASC link http://www.basc.org.uk/content/changes_to_general_licenc Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishdave Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 I dont understand why This government cow tows to the antis so much. they dont even make up 1/2 of one percent of the population!!! We have got to get these ****wits out of power. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sniper Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 markbivvy, Where did you get your information from ?? If you look under the link provided by marco, and go to the General amendments you will see that these new conditions ( non lethal alternatives etc ) are just being considered. I do not read it the way that your post appears to interpret it. I read it that the General licence for us pigeonners hasn't been altered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_88 Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 I dont understand why This government cow tows to the antis so much. they dont even make up 1/2 of one percent of the population!!! We have got to get these ****wits out of power. Dave To right dave. If we dont get them out of power they will completely ruin all our sports for good! Somthing must be done. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted March 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 it came from the bbs shooting forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sniper Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Thanks for your reply, markbivvy. I've had a look at the post in bbs, and it looks to me as if that is one persons response and summation of the rules. I appreciate that I am doing the same thing in summarising the new rules but I stick by what I said. That is, I don't think these new rules have altered the conditions under which we can shoot pigeons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb5037 Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 only crow, jackdaw, jay, magpie and rook may be used as decoy birds. Well there goes my dreams of owning a pigeon magnet and flaper. B) Nagh! I say ******** to the Gov' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Beasley Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Its on page 4 of todays Telegraph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 From the Daily Telegraph today. Only shoot woodpigeon if you can't scare it off By Charles Clover (Filed: 01/03/2005) The shooting of woodpigeons and crows may only take place in future only if scaring them has been shown not to work, the Government said yesterday. Under new rules which came into force yesterday, woodpigeons, magpies and other pest bird species may be shot only if other, non-lethal forms of pest control, including gas guns and scarecrows, have first been demonstrated not to protect crops or game birds. Landowners and field sports bodies were astonished at changes which they said came without any consultation, announcement or even being posted on the website of the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) on the day they came into force. The Country Land and Business Association (CLA) said the changes effectively outlawed the shooting of woodpigeons, a pursuit traditionally followed by hundreds of thousands of camouflage-clad shooters at this time of year. What came into force yesterday and unannounced was a change to the wording of general licences issued to kill pest species including woodpigeons, rooks, crows, magpies, jays, collared doves, Canada geese, greater and lesser black-backed gulls. Countryside organisations were informed by Defra that the wording of the latest general licences, which apply to all shooters, was being changed to read: “This licence can only be relied upon in circumstances where the authorised person can demonstrate that appropriate non-lethal methods of control such as scaring are either ineffective or impracticable.” Along with our hunting brethren it seems we are all to be ethnically cleansed on the New Labour alter of political correctness. I sincerely hope that no one here is considering voting for them in the forthcoming election . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_whitson Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 I think someone in the media has got the wrong end of this one... (as per usual then!) It's widely accepted, by all concerned, that the only effective way to deal with woodies is to shoot them wherever and whenever possible, in order to keep the numbers down. Unless that consensus has changed, shooting them over decoys is still legal; non-lethal methods *have* been shown not to work, in a country-wide sense. HOWEVER! Some people say that shooting pigeon actually *increases* their numbers, by killing off the weak ones earlier, so that they leave more food for the ones that would have survived anyway. If the Government has bought that argument, then all bets are off... Still, I think that anyone decoying pigeon has an excellent case that non-lethal methods have been shown not to work. The real purpose of the change is to stop canadas beeing shot in the same way as pigeon are - after march 1st, they are both under the same license. Now, I think we can see that the two would have to be treated rather differently! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishdave Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 I bet the people who make and sel decoys must be gutted, I dont think any one saw that little gem coming! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Have the boys from DECOYING UK come up with a reinforced magnet yet to cope with the additional weight of a dead canada with a 51/2 foot wingspan.? FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb5037 Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Unbeleveable. Going to the shop to get the paper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 I think it is a mistake for Canada's to be on the general license myself, if it gets abused by anyone it will be picked up on and we will be damaged. I understand they have and are having a population explosion but as Sam F said in another thread -this means we should shoot them harder when they are in season. It'll be a disaster for shooting if Canada's are shot and the young are shown to starve and die. I think they should be available on an applied license in the closed season where as said previously other methods - scaring- have been shown to be ineffective. That said I don't think many people will whack canada's out of season anyway. I agree on the principle though- Labour will work- piece by piece to get us banned. Remember you can only eat an elephant in small bites... Last week handguns blanket ban, yesterday Brococks banned, today you have to "scare them before you shoot", tommorow? By putting these things in place, all it takes it very small turns of a screw to bit by bit shut down our sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Dont get too concerned before you read the BASC news bulletin by visiting www.basc.org.uk. At the end of the day the wood pigeon has not been removed from the general list. I eat all I shoot generally so I shoot for the table and not under the guise of pest control. Does that mean I have to demonstrate that I have tried other means of scaring them to death before I can legitimately shoot them FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../02/ixhome.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apbuild Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 I don't know what to say. I will still be out at the weekend. Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted March 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 I shoot for the table and not under the guise of pest control. fisherman mike. that line wont mean diddly if this is to happen. you shoot. thats it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_88 Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 That would be there next move on banning shooting then What do they think they are playing at, ruining the country lifestyle like they are. It makes me so angry, i have just one thing to say to them Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 I promise to only shoot near them tomorrow rather than actually hitting them (no change there then ) I'm then only acting as scarecrow/banger aren't I ??, and they always reckon that only women can do two things at once !!! Well that's what my ex wife used to tell me, she was right, she could whinge for England at the same time as baking a cake !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Bit of political suicide this close to a (supposed) general election methinks, if there is any truth in it !. Looks like we will have to organise another national woodpigeon day to show our agreement with this don't it. Poor Will Beasley, I said Beasley, not BEESLEY !!! must be breaking out in a cold sweat now with a warehouse full of pigeon magnets, hide nets and poles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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