General License Modifications

[dunganick]

"non-lethal methods of control such as scaring are either ineffective or impracticable.”

 

 

well how do you proove if something is impracticable

 

its a bit like fox hunting really.....wont actually stop people doing it... they just find other ways of doing it

[The Sniper]

Well unless I am reading this completely wrong I don't think anything has altered for us pigeonners.

 

Please go to marcos post above, click onto the link. Then click onto where you can view the general licences.

 

Now please go onto the Amendments for General Licences 2005. ( By the way this licence is now effective until 28th February 2005 )

 

Then tab to the end of these amendments.

 

I quote, "We ( DEFRA ) are also considering introducing new conditions on Licences WLF18 ( general licence ) WLF100085 ( Air safety licence) and WLF 100088 (licence to take birds to preserve public health and safety ) regarding the use of non lethal alternatives. Under these conditions, the licence will not be able to be used where certain non-lethal alternatives are effective and practicable"

 

The way I read it they are CONSIDERING non- lethal alternatives only. It is not law yet !!!!!!

[Paul in North Lincs.]

its complete and utter ********.............................................. :< :<

 

Paul in North Lincs

[markbivvy]

its changed as of the first of march, i think.

[barrie0]

This is the paragraphs you need to read , as said by sniper its only a consideration .

 

Extracts from here

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countrysi...esamend2005.pdf

 

 

(2) Non-Lethal Alternatives

We are also considering introducing new conditions on licences WLF 18, WLF 100085 and WLF 100088 regarding the use of nonlethal

alternatives. Under these conditions, the licence will not be able to be used where certain non-lethal alternatives are effective

and practicable.

 

Amendments for General Licences 2005

Licence Name Changes for 2005

number

WLF 18 Licence to kill or take

certain birds and take

or destroy nests or

eggs for the purpose

of preventing spread

of disease and for

preventing serious

damage to livestock,

foodstuffs for

livestock, crops,

vegetables, fruit,

growing timber,

fisheries or inland

waters.

1) Remove House Sparrow & Starling;

2) Add Canada Goose;

3) Allow the use of cage traps (1);

4) Allow the use of semi-automatic weapons;

5) Addition of note that except as provided under Section 16(7) of the Wildlife and

Countryside Act 1981, this licence does not permit actions prohibited under any other

legislation. For example, where the action involves the use of firearms, it is the

authorised person’s responsibility to ensure that he complies with all relevant legislation.

Similarly, anyone acting under this licence is not exempt from the provisions of section

28E of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, as amended.

 

WLF 100085

Licence to kill or take

certain birds and take

or destroy nests or

eggs for the purpose

of preserving air

safety (now the only

air safety licence)

1) Include the following species from current licence WLF 100088 to be controlled ‘on or in

the vicinity of’ all MOD / CAA aerodromes: (‘vicinity’ means within 13km radius)

Canada Goose, Crow, Feral Pigeon, Great Black-backed Gull, Herring Gull, Lesser

Black-backed Gull, Mallard, Rook, Starling, Woodpigeon;

2) Include the following species to be controlled ‘within the perimeter of’ all MOD / CAA

aerodromes;

Black-headed gull, Collared Dove, Common Gull, Jackdaw, Lapwing, Magpie;

3) Include the following species to be controlled ‘within the perimeter of’’ Liverpool,

 

Blackpool and Warton aerodromes;

Oystercatcher;

4) Removal of use of nets as a method of taking birds;

5) Allow the use of cage traps (1);

6) Allow the use of artificial sighting, illuminating devices for Feral Pigeon only;

7) Requirement to report on the number of birds taken under this licence;

8) Addition of note that except as provided under Section 16(7) of the Wildlife and

Countryside Act 1981, this licence does not permit actions prohibited under any other

legislation. For example, where the action involves the use of firearms, it is the

authorised person’s responsibility to ensure that he complies with all relevant legislation.

Similarly, anyone acting under this licence is not exempt from the provisions of section

28E of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, as amended.

 

WLF 100088

Licence to kill or take

certain birds, including

the taking, damaging

or destruction of their

1) Remove purpose of air safety;

2) Remove House Sparrow & Starling;

 

nests or taking or

destruction of their

eggs for the purpose

of preserving public

health and safety.

3) Add Canada Goose;

4) Allow the use of cage traps (1);

5) Allow use of semi-automatic weapons;

6) Addition of note that except as provided under Section 16(7) of the Wildlife and

Countryside Act 1981, this licence does not permit actions prohibited under any other

legislation. For example, where the action involves the use of firearms, it is the

authorised person’s responsibility to ensure that he complies with all relevant legislation.

Similarly, anyone acting under this licence is not exempt from the provisions of section

28E of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, as amended

[The Sniper]

Thanks BarrieO,

 

I'm pleased you agree with me.

 

I'm pleased,also, somebody has taken the time to read the fine print.

 

If more people did we wouldn't have a lot of this ill-advised scaremongering.

 

Just because it was in the newspapers doesn't mean it has to be true !!!!

 

[Fisherman Mike]

It all hinges on the words from WFLI8 being " Ineffective or Impracticable"

 

Obviously gas Guns are ineffective at controlling pigeon numbers predating on crops and this can be easily demonstrated.

 

Secondly it is impracticable to have many gas guns operating at one time over the vast areas of land to be protected. (Environmental sound pollution issues)

 

Common sense must prevail in this case. At the end of the day the Wood Pigeon is still on the general list and will I imagine remain so until its numbers dictate otherwise. I would say that many if not all of our Farmers on whose land we shoot would testify that alternative methods of control or crop protection are ineffective or impracticable other than a good old fashioned 12 G.

 

The biggest risk to our sport are these bloody nimbys employed by the Government in Defra and the Consultative committee who frankly dont have a clue what they are doing and very little, if indeed any knowledge of Agriculture, Ecology or Conservation. I know several employees of the DEFRA department near me and they dont even give a toss because they are safe in The Government benefits system which is available to the CS. They couldnt care less about crop protection or badger control or bovine TB or environmental waste issues just as long as the money transfer goes through each month and the pension keeps topping up.

 

Roll on the next GE and we can change the constitution, get rid of this useless and inept government and get back to some sort of normality.

 

What I would say to Mr. BLIAR is, "dont worry about the Consultative Comittee or changes to the Wildlife and Countryside Act, what about that drunken plonker with no tax, insurance or licence that mowed down and killed a 12 year old boy and only got 8 years !!!! We need to get things in this country into perspective and priority, how that guy deserves the same rights and benefits as me is beyond my comprehension."

 

FM

 

(Letting of steam after a real pissy day trying to negotiate with the Gas Board

I,d have more joy trying to revive Elvis or get the Pope to recite the koran )

[markbivvy]

mr sniper

i did say at the start of the thread it needed reading by all,as i am no legal expert i was only trying to get someone who understands these writen minefields

to have a look. saying it will never happen, well i wish i could look at shooting through your rose tinted glasses. a lot said fox hunting wont be banned as the queen rides to hounds.but she let us down good style.

[Nicky]

Problem solved. I'll be putting a dissclaimer on my hide saying that 'Any pigeons, crows or magpies that fly into the path of my lead shot while I am shooting flys, do so at there own risk. Even if I do shout "this ones for you Blair" whilst doing so.'

[davhope]

Have e-mailed BASC to ask for clarification on this issue,

I will post any reply I recive.

[old rooster]

I've found the answer !!!!!!!!!!!!, good old Ebay

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...4360948243&rd=1

 

 

Hands orf you lot !!!, I saw it first, will use it to draw the anti's away from the fields where I'm shooting

Edited March 2, 2005 by old rooster

[old rooster]

(Letting of steam after a real pissy day trying to negotiate with the Gas Board

I,d have more joy trying to revive Elvis or get the Pope to recite the koran )

You will be pleased to hear that the Pope has been getting some speech therapy today following his recent operation, so you might be in luck yet Mike.

 

Sorry for derailing the thread, it's about time we just got on with it and enjoyed our sports, I'm sliding into ***** mode these days, it's the way to go for a stress free life.

 

I realise that we face a very real threat from Mr. B.Liar but I doubt if even that **** and his merry bunch of morons would take on the shooting fraternity. Phil the Greek would tear off his head and **** down his neck for starters !!!

[old rooster]

Problem solved. I'll be putting a dissclaimer on my hide saying that 'Any pigeons, crows or magpies that fly into the path of my lead shot while I am shooting flys, do so at there own risk. Even if I do shout "this ones for you Blair" whilst doing so.'

****,

 

I thought you realised that I was one of the founders of the league against cruelty to flies !!! I'm so pro fly that I even make my own and I know FM does so watch what you are posting Nicky

[Red 9R]

look's like I picked a good time to try and get back into shooting.

 

(Now where I can get a silencer for my 12 bore? )

Edited March 2, 2005 by Red 9R

[Staffs-Shooter]

BASC have issued a statement :- BASC

[The Sniper]

markbivvy,

 

You asked us to read it..... I read it..... I didn't agree with it.

 

So what ? Aren't we both big enough men to have a disagreement ?

 

I disagree with the fact that you chose to post an article that is misleading, at the very least.

 

If you had chosen to do a bit of homework, before posting, we would not be discussing this now.

 

Far from having rose tinted glasses, I am watching Defra and the Home Office like a hawk, for any signs that they will take away my right to go pigeonning. This idea of theirs " that may be considered " of having to use non-lethal alternatives before shooting will, I assure you, be followed by me at every stage of its " consideration".

 

Read my posts again, Mark. Did I say it wasn't going to happen ??

 

[Staffs-Shooter]

See BASC press release

[Staffs-Shooter]

I've found the answer !!!!!!!!!!!!, good old Ebay

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...4360948243&rd=1

 

 

Hands orf you lot !!!, I saw it first, will use it to draw the anti's away from the fields where I'm shooting

ROFLMAO

[markbivvy]

mr sniper

i posted what i found on a shooting forum. i did not ask anyone to agree

or disagree. misleading or not they are not my words just copied and pasted mate.

if you can understand all that is says and the way it is said then well and good, but to be honest most of it is all double dutch to me. i dont mind a bit of disagreement with anyone , it makes the world go round.and i will sleep a lot better knowing you are keeping a watch on defra and tony.

[Gemini]

3rd March 2005………………………………………immediate release.

New wording in the general licences, which allow pest birds such as crows and pigeons to be controlled, will not restrict pigeon shooting or other pest control on shoots or farms.

BASC has issued advice to its 122,000 members that they will be able to continue to control pests - and in the case of woodpigeons enjoy sporting shooting - as they have done under general licences since their introduction in 1990.

The EU Birds Directive protects all birds with two exceptions: “game” shooting, subject to certain conditions such as closed seasons, and pest control under licence where there is no other satisfactory solution. This latter condition has always been implicit in all such licences. The new wording merely makes it explicit in order to show beyond doubt that the general licence complies with European law.

BASC Chief Executive, John Swift, said;

“Those who shoot or use traps to control pests do not themselves have to have tried other methods first. In the unlikely event of an authorised person being challenged by the police he would simply have to state that what he was doing was a contribution to crop protection and cite the extensive literature that demonstrates non-lethal methods to be ineffective and impracticable. He might also add that the Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs states in the opening paragraph of the licence “that there is no other satisfactory solution”.

 

G.M.

[Red 9R]

I've found the answer !!!!!!!!!!!!, good old Ebay

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...4360948243&rd=1

 

 

Hands orf you lot !!!, I saw it first, will use it to draw the anti's away from the fields where I'm shooting

OR you sir, are a classic

[The Sniper]

mark,

 

Now we know each other a bit better, you can drop the Mr

 

 

[markbivvy]

cheers mate

all the best.

[Jon-Boy]

Im not gonna take a blind bit of notice im afraid to say!

 

How and who is going to be able to tell if you havent tried alternative methods before you start shooting. Its another one of those ******** laws that cannot be enforced and wont be.

 

All laws have loop holes, this one is simple how the F*&k do you trap a pigeon (also traps are cruel in my opinion) and secondly you go out into the field and when you "walk up" the pigeons thats you method of scaring off, fire a couple of shots to if you like.

 

Youve now attempted other means, so now setup as usual and shoot!

 

Its just been put into place to satisfy some ****, it wont be enforced and cant be!

 

just my two cents

 

jon

 

Sorry if it sounds bad, but Pi55es me off a good-un!!

[old rooster]

Yeehaaaaa I got a larf

 

Sorry, I'm suffering the after effects of a bottle of "Old ***". Sleep tite you guys.