MC Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Martinmoreton was wrong as well. This has now gone to 11 pages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) ****** me! cant belive this has made 11. But, once all the informative stuff has been filtered, we are left with 10 pages of guff PS, i once shot a mole in the ear with a HMR at 497 yards. it only damaged his hat, and with it turned on the side, you couldnt see any marks on the stitching. I have seen a crow have a lit cigar twanged from his mouth at around 600 yards, but it didnt count as it was a Wednesday. :blink: Edited March 3, 2009 by martinmoreton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Gould Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 150yards seems a good distance the hmr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 The basis of your argument seems to be "LINEAR" When in the real world it's, 1, Inconsistency. 2, Never two batches the same. That's come from field experience, not theory ! BB is right, your speaking hypothetically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabefisher Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 The basis of your argument seems to be "LINEAR" When in the real world it's, 1, Inconsistency. 2, Never two batches the same. That's come from field experience, not theory ! BB is right, your speaking hypothetically. looks to me as if someone hasn't read the thread properly, or has just read the bits he wants to see...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 1, Inconsistency. 2, Never two batches the same. Exactly. Go to an indoor range, say 100 yards, get a .17 and get it bolted to the cement works so it will not move a micron. Fire 10,000 rounds and I bet you not every shot passes through the last, leaving a theoretical .17 of an inch hole. Batches of ammo are tested like this, but only 5 out of 10,000 or so and they only have to shoot in a half inch group to pass the batch off. I watched a something on tv about it. I will try and find the video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 looks to me as if someone hasn't read the thread properly, or has just read the bits he wants to see...! I've read thread properly....your whole argument is round one word, & that's "LINEAR" Hypothetically speaking of course, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabefisher Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Exactly. Go to an indoor range, say 100 yards, get a .17 and get it bolted to the cement works so it will not move a micron. Fire 10,000 rounds and I bet you not every shot passes through the last, leaving a theoretical .17 of an inch hole. i'd be interested to see you quote something i've said in this thread which suggests I think it would leave one hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabefisher Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I've read thread properly....your whole argument is round one word, & that's "LINEAR" Hypothetically speaking of course, and what exactly do you think I am debating when talking about "linear"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 i'd be interested to see you quote something i've said in this thread which suggests I think it would leave one hole? I wasn't implying that anyone had said that. I was speaking theoretically, like the majority of this entire 11 pager. Here's a link to prove the complete inconsistency of ammunition. The range is air controlled and the guns are clamped down. Can we call it a day now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabefisher Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I wasn't implying that anyone had said that. I was speaking theoretically, like the majority of this entire 11 pager. Here's a link to prove the complete inconsistency of ammunition. The range is air controlled and the guns are clamped down. Can we call it a day now fair enough, I should have asked This debate started when someone earlier, MC I think, said that a gun which could shoot a 1" group at 100m would only do a 12" group at 200m. I have been trying to find out why he, or anyone else, thinks that will happen. I'm still wondering...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Because I have seen it happen. And I didn't say that it would only do a group like that at 200 yards. But it is more likely. As quite a few people on here has backed up. The one thing that isn't linear about rimfire ammunition is the rate at which it slows down. we have already covered the second one which is it's trajectory. And the effect of wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabefisher Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I think it was dead eye ive at bisley a couple of years back shooting his at 200 yards and although it was a fairly calm day I doubt that the group was much tighter that 12". but because you can shoot sub MOA at 100 yards does not mean it carries on to what ever distance you like sorry, I guess I misinterpreted what you have been saying, please accept my apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 "please be a 12 pager!.... please be a 12 pager!" im sure that even air pressure will effect the flight path. what about if there was..say....some smoke in the air? would the smoke (being a gas) create a disturbance in the force? But then again, why would you want to shoot through the smoke? unless you were in battle maybe....? BUT! would you use a HMR in battle? :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) "please be a 12 pager!.... please be a 12 pager!" I fear a 12 pager on such a small question might also begin to be a contributing factor to the flight of a 17 bullet :good: Edited March 3, 2009 by harfordwmj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 i agree, the amount of hot air this thread has generated would certainly affect the flight path Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 BUT! would you use a HMR in battle? http://www.lakesideguns.com/title1/17hmr.html One of them is bound to hit at 300 yards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 one things for sure I wouldn't want to be within 300 yards of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabefisher Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 http://www.lakesideguns.com/title1/17hmr.html One of them is bound to hit at 300 yards! on the negative side though think how many different batches of ammo you would go through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) fair enough, I should have asked This debate started when someone earlier, MC I think, said that a gun which could shoot a 1" group at 100m would only do a 12" group at 200m. I have been trying to find out why he, or anyone else, thinks that will happen. I'm still wondering...! This is what I believe it may be right it may be wrong but it works for me as I don’t take long range pot shots, the HMR (rimfire) has a primer added to the powder which means its ignition not as consistent as a Centre fire to start with, the optimum velocity is reached to ensure the stability of the round and ensures a very accurate POI up to and around 150 yards (its designed area of use) after this as the velocity slows the stability of the round decreases quite rapidly and as the round drops making it prone to tumble or wobble and whilst you can allow for drop you cant quite so easily factor in an allowance for wobble or wibble for that matter of any factory round, I assume if the longer a round could maintain its optimum velocity the further the accuracy could be extended. Thats why we switch to a centre fire for longer range work rather than push the limit of a tool that should be used for another job I am prepared to listen to others who may know better Edited March 3, 2009 by pavman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 on the negative side though think how many different batches of ammo you would go through There's no theory in hit and hope, thought you knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 on the negative side though think how many different batches of ammo you would go through Variation in ammunition is the least of your worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabefisher Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Variation in ammunition is the least of your worries. never a truer word spoken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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