What makes a good sporting clay course?

[Chard]

Puzzling

 

Generally speaking, the Essex Masters course is regarded as a very good set-up. Testing targets, something for everyone, trips up the best shots etc etc etc. I notice on the "elitest" forum that one bloke spoke out with a different opinion, referring to the targets as a load of floppers and droppers . However, when asked what his score was, he declined to respond, leaving himself open to the suggestion that he was slating the targets because he couldn't hit them.

 

Now, it's no secret that I'm very defensive of my local club, Worsley, which comes in for plenty of stick about the targets, which I don't understand. They're not easy targets and I have long suspected that the vocal ones who slate Worsley targets can't hit them . "Sun's in my eyes" "floppers, droppers and trees" "so close that you overlead everything" (that's novel).

 

I note from the Essex Masters scorecard that Mick Nicholson, who I have a lot of respect for as a shooter, got 183, which was 1 behind Richard Faulds, and 4 behind George Digweed and well up there with the leaders. Thats about 91/92 a round. When he used to shoot registered at Worsley, Mick Nicholson used to get scores in the 91-96 range. So why is one course great and one ****?

 

Strikes me people talk a load of bollix . Seems to me that a "good course" is one where they score well and the ego gets a bit of a massage, and a "bad course" is one where they shoot below their average - except the Essex Masters of course, because it takes a brave soul to suggest that those targets are rubbish. The course at Worsley is actually more varied than the Masters course, because there are at least a few distant targets, but there are a good few "gimme" targets too, bearing in mind that it is a club shoot.

 

The organisation etc I can understand. I thought the organisation at the Masters was pretty good, given the numbers of entrants, and Worsley has never been strong on that. But as for the targets, the critics make me laugh. It's dummies out the pram. Can't hit the targets, so it must be a duff bit of course setting. Yeah right

[Gordon R]

I have shot Worsley many times over the years. Too many targets which can only be shot in a small gap in between the trees and too many into the sun.

 

I have shot sporting in Lancashire, Cheshire, Cornwall, Leicestershire, Derbyshire, Northumberland, Yorkshire, Merseyside, Greater Manchester, Norfolk, Staffordshire, Lincolnshire, North and South Wales, plus a few more. I have some experience.

 

I don't find Worsley hard. I find it a pain in the backside to get booked on. A pain in the backside to get the food I ordered. A truly awful road. Not to mention the horseflies.

 

They have the facilities, but they need to get their act together. Try Hodnet - similar potential, but different league.

[Chard]

Too many targets which can only be shot in a small gap in between the trees and too many into the sun.

 

I don't find Worsley hard.

 

Sounds contradictory to me

[Catamong]

Some of the people that criticise various grounds don't have much experience upon which to make that judgement.

 

You need to have shot a lot of grounds to speak with any degree of authority on the subject.

 

Most people I spoke to at this years Essex Masters thought that the layout was not as interesting as previous years, I was also lead to believe that some "new" ground was being added to the course so that both layouts could run concurrently, in fact all of the 24 stands were on ground previously used for the event.

 

One guy said to me, "The only decent crosser was the tower bird on the pool shoot", (my goodness, didn't that need some lead..!?).

 

I think Dyson puts on a fair layout overall, despite the fact that the ground itself has nothing like the character that other top grounds like Hodnet or Newnham Park have, he also attracts far more entries than the CPSA organised Sporting Majors, (small wonder when it's CPSA £53 / 100 birds or Dyson £72 / 200 birds), bit of a no brainer really.

 

Cat.

[Bagsy]

I have shot sporting in Lancashire, Cheshire, Cornwall, Leicestershire, Derbyshire, Northumberland, Yorkshire, Merseyside, Greater Manchester, Norfolk, Staffordshire, Lincolnshire, North and South Wales, plus a few more. I have some experience.

 

Another one avoiding Essex

 

[Chard]

Most people I spoke to at this years Essex Masters thought that the layout was not as interesting as previous years,

Cat.

 

Yes, I suppose there's "interesting" and "challenging"

 

Not necessarily the same thing. I think I saw a post from you somewhere that you thought this years Masters course was more testing or tougher than previous years, but I understand what you mean by not particularly interesting. A course can be uninteresting but sodding difficult, just as it can be interesting and rather easy. I suppose they could both be described as good courses, for different reasons

[Gordon R]

Chard - no contradiction. Some which head into the sun are not hard targets, but why do it. My eyesight is more affected by bright sunlight than other people. It's uncomfortable.

 

On one stand - out of six of us, none could see where the clays went. The clay counter kept registering. We left it.

[Catamong]

Another one avoiding Essex

 

 

Can you blame him, when the "Billericay Bandit" is likely to show up, claiming to be a complete novice at the entry table..??

 

I've also shot clays in every county that Gordon mentions, (except Northumberland), plus every County in England South of Manchester.

 

Cat.

[Bagsy]

I agree with the sun issue having similar difficulties on bright days. Dartford is prone to this problem with one side of the shoot facing away from the sun and one side into it - not much fun in the summer

[Chard]

I agree with the sun issue having similar difficulties on bright days. Dartford is prone to this problem with one side of the shoot facing away from the sun and one side into it - not much fun in the summer

 

Get yer Oakleys out, you Essex Jessie

 

Half the targets on the Black course at the Essex Masters were into the sun. Nobody says a word

They just shoot them. They're just different targets that need a different approach. A bit like the ones where you get a brief moment to shoot them between the trees. Just different targets that need shooting. There's nothing in the rules that says every sporting target must have acres of sky around it and give you a week and a half to get yourself cranked up to shoot it. Some targets require you to get your finger out of your harris and some need sunglasses.

[Gordon R]

Despite all I have said about Worsley, I wish that they would improve it. It is well placed near the motorway, plenty of land and a good clubhouse.

 

Sort out the road, targets and booking on.

 

Can't do anything about the horseflies in summer though.

[Bagsy]

Some targets require you to get your finger out of your harris and some need sunglasses.

 

Damn, reckon I would've got 10% more if you'd told me on the day

[Chard]

Despite all I have said about Worsley, I wish that they would improve it. It is well placed near the motorway, plenty of land and a good clubhouse.

 

Sort out the road, targets and booking on.

 

Can't do anything about the horseflies in summer though.

 

 

There's a lot of improving going on at the moment actually, skeet range and some trap set-up etc etc. Should be open soon.

 

Can't see him doing much about the road, because it's so long and it's not his. It either belongs to Grange Farm or Peel Holdings. I know the farmers round there are very hot on keeping speed down across that land, so I can't see them agreeing to a tarmac racetrack. I think it was them that insisted on the "tank trap" ditches dug across the road either side of that bungalow. I've seen a few cracked sumps on them this winter

 

I suppose the "booking on" won't be a problem any more, because there won't be any more big shoots held there now. There certainly isn't much of a problem booking in for a days club shooting, but I remember some terrible queues for registered events there. You'd lost the will to live by the time you got to the desk

 

And yes, the horseflies are a pain in the harris. They are literally the only insects that go for me. Mozzies and gnats don't bother me at all, but those things drive me to distraction

Edited April 23, 2009 by Chard

[Markio]

Good point/post Chard.

 

Reminds me very much of a local moaner i see at our haybale. Complains like **** about everything, rather then get on and enjoy it or **** off and shoot somewhere else. One stand in particular; The cage is at the top of a small reservoir, mid summer so the 'pond' is low and the trap is at the lowest point on the bank. It's firing simo pairs really low across the top of the water until they hit the opposite bank. He moan like ****** that it was a ridiculous bird etc. Why? **** knows, maybe he didn't get his 7/8 or 8/8 that he wanted. I only got 4 or maybe 5 (from memory) of the 8 and enjoyed the stand, it was hittable but you still needed to be on the ball to get them all.

 

What makes a good layout? Depends what level you're out or how much of twa.. you are.

[Gordon R]

Chard - glad to hear about the improvements. The road is worse than it was years ago. Forget tarmac - some holes filled in would do for starters.

[Chard]

Chard - glad to hear about the improvements. The road is worse than it was years ago. Forget tarmac - some holes filled in would do for starters.

 

 

Oh he's done a bit of filling in

 

But it doesn't last long. A couple of months and all the infill has pinged out again. But the only really bad bit is around that bungalow now. I find most of it a bit like driving over a cattle grid. The faster you go, the less you feel it

 

I do think it will be a very good ground when the skeet and trap are open. I'm not sure of his motives. Whether he wants to reapply for CPSA registered status, I don't know. He says not and I know he was never keen on hosting their shoots, he used to think they were a pain in the harris and they used to have to twist his arm to get him to hold them, but you never know really. Maybe he was upset at being de-registered

[Chard]

Good point/post Chard.

 

Reminds me very much of a local moaner i see at our haybale. Complains like **** about everything, rather then get on and enjoy it or **** off and shoot somewhere else. One stand in particular; The cage is at the top of a small reservoir, mid summer so the 'pond' is low and the trap is at the lowest point on the bank. It's firing simo pairs really low across the top of the water until they hit the opposite bank. He moan like ****** that it was a ridiculous bird etc. Why? **** knows, maybe he didn't get his 7/8 or 8/8 that he wanted. I only got 4 or maybe 5 (from memory) of the 8 and enjoyed the stand, it was hittable but you still needed to be on the ball to get them all.

 

What makes a good layout? Depends what level you're out or how much of twa.. you are.

 

 

There used to be a stand like that at Worsley (not with the water, we don't have any of that, unfortunately)

 

It used to be a low driven simo pair, right over your head. That used to get moaned about a lot. Many said it was unhittable, but it was actually easy if you got your finger out. It was a bit dangerous though, which is why they took it off in the end. Because they were so low and fast, they only way you could hit them both was to take the first one as soon as you saw it coming and the second one straight over your head, because that's where it had got to by the time you'd shot the first one

 

The safety problem was that the fast momentum of the first broken clay used to hurtle bits straight at you in the stand

 

Me and my eldest lad had about 50 shots each on that stand once, I couldn't get him off it. Great fun. Very unpopular stand though - it caused a lot of complaints and moans.

[paulos]

Are you shooting the Police shoot at Worsley next week Chard? I'm venturing down into Manc land for it. I am prepared to be the official, unbiased PW adjudicator of how good it is (I won't blame the targets if I miss, I have a book jammed full of other excuses ready for that! )

[Devilishdave]

Parsonaly I will shoot any set up and learn somthing from it and wont be to botherd by the score. The guy who sets up at my local ground tends to have one that most can hit and one that will sort the men from the boys on each stand or he will have an easyish pair followed by a hard pair. I think this works well because most people get tested by the harder clays and the guys who are not so good dont go away completely demoralised.

 

Dave

[MC]

Never has a truer word been said,

 

A GOOD sporting shoot should have something for everybody, there should be easy stands medium stands and a couple to sort Catamong out from the men. In my opinion a good well set up sporting shoot should be set so an average club shooter can get 60%, this will mean that most will do OK some will do better and some will do worse.

 

If every shoot someone goes to is so bloody hard that they only get 25-30% then they will soon get fed up and go somewhere else.

 

There is a shoot near me that hasn't got a clue how to set up a good shoot. Their idea of hard is put everything at 60 yards and make it a mini.

[Mungler]

If a course is "not testing or full of floppers and droppers" then that should be reflected in the scores. If matey moaner got f-all then tough - he might want to practice more on floppers and droppers.

 

Most of the registered bunch want to shoot every course and see their "standard" registered birds : you know a regulation looper at 25 yards, a regulation battue at 20 yards etc.

 

If they don't get to see and shoot at what they are used to and have their egos massaged with a score on parr with their class then you can bet that they will slate the course.

 

I think all of the big competitions should be run such that the entire course is fresh and has never been shot before.

 

When I last shot Lakenheath and High Lodge very little had changed from the time before and of course all the locals were pleased because it was basically the same layout they had shot before but with a few tweaks.

 

Courses like the Masters are fresh from scratch and no shooter gets an unfair advantage of being round before.

 

I have shot Southdown twice; once on a normal 100 birder and once on some extra special competition. There was no difference between the two, presumably to make sure the Southdown locals scored well in the "extra special competition" and didn't **** and moan like we all know they do so well.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Mungler

[Dunkield]

The ground itself is the starting point IMHO.

 

If you only have a flat field to start with the chances are you can't come up with a great layout, if you try you can make it good but not great.

On the other hand if you have ground with woods and valley's/hills you have a much better chance of putting on a decent layout.

 

I only shoot clays for fun but I can't stand ridiculously hard or easy stuff, but I enjoy hitting birds you never thought I would hit, and maybe learning something from the experience.

[throdgrain]

Thing is, despite having to get a certificate to shoot and all that, a lot of shooters dont always know what they're on about

 

 

I was queueing up to pay at Court Farm the other day, and the bloke in front of me was talking about CPSA (it was a registered shoot). When I paid I said birds only , as I'm not a member of CPSA (though I am a member of the club), this chap pipes up "oh well I'm not shooting anywhere near you then!" in a blustery kind of way. Me and the lady who takes the money both look at him and kind of say "you what?". He says "well, you don't have any insurance!!" in an outraged tone. I tell him I'm a member of the BASC, he's never heard of them God knows what he would have had to say about my Mossberg!

 

 

As far as clay grounds go, must admit Court Farm isnt a favourite of mine. It's got a nice setting, plenty of room to park and everything, but I just dont get on with the clays I always shoot better at Gatton Bottom.

 

I don't blame the ground for that though, more myself

[Chard]

Are you shooting the Police shoot at Worsley next week Chard? I'm venturing down into Manc land for it. I am prepared to be the official, unbiased PW adjudicator of how good it is (I won't blame the targets if I miss, I have a book jammed full of other excuses ready for that! )

 

I think I am, but I've forgotten which day it's on, because I'm so organised

 

I'll be at Worsley tomorrow and I'll sort it out. I had talked about shooting this with a couple of my cronies, who I'll see tomorrow, I think I'll be there

 

Edit : I've just looked on the website and it seems to be Friday 1st May. What a ******* stupid day to hold a shoot

 

That's actually not a good day for me. I'll try and reshuffle some work, but it's not looking good

Edited April 24, 2009 by Chard

[MC]

The ground itself is the starting point IMHO.

 

If you only have a flat field to start with the chances are you can't come up with a great layout, if you try you can make it good but not great.

On the other hand if you have ground with woods and valley's/hills you have a much better chance of putting on a decent layout.

 

I only shoot clays for fun but I can't stand ridiculously hard or easy stuff, but I enjoy hitting birds you never thought I would hit, and maybe learning something from the experience.

 

 

Partly correct,

 

One of my favourite hay bale shoots is held on a flat field. The shoots that they put on are top notch. They are a good well set up shoot on a field which is probably not more than about 10 acres. Although it does have surrounding hedges and is does fall to one side so these natural features can be used to put on interesting BIRDS.