deadeye ive Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Is there a documented case of someone having their 12ftlb airgun chronograped by the firearms departement and it found to be over the limit because as i understand the present law it's a minimum 5yrs for a unlisensed firearm.My gun is licensed but most of my freinds have DIY tweaked up theobens etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High velocity Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Dont know of any. But but there again if you are shooting at 12ftlb it is ok but 12.5ftlb or 50ftlb it is classed as a fire arm . As you will probably allready know. However close it is over the 12ftlb legal limit it will be illegal. You are best sticking to about 11.5. It seems to me that the threads that i have read on this forum seem to be from people with a bit more sense than to put themselves into that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 I have read on other forums about cases where people have got themselves into trouble over the 12ft/lb limit, after using pellets that have taken them over or not having the chrono'd in the first place. In some of the cases mentioned it was mainly down to the discretion of the police as to whether prosecution took place with rifles just over. Your always gonna get a good cop and a bad cop. Be safe, be sure, get your mates to turn them down, especially when they are probably alot higher over the limit than just a little. As HV mentioned 12.1ft/lb is still over the limit and if the enforcement officer checking it doesnt like it, it might end in tears. At the very least they'd end up loosing their rifles. Regards, Axe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 My shotty comes up for renewal this time next year, so I'm going co terminus with FAC, as well as applying for a .30 caliber and a FAC airgun, so If i ever want to uprate an airgun i can. Also if i ever get caught short, should the pellets put me over 12ftlb I am in the clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Red Stag, I'm sure you appreciate this but for the sake of others who might be reading this, having the slot on your FAC is not enough. You would have to tell the police that you had acquired the rifle & where you got it etc, obviously if it was one you had earlier which you then modified and told the police you had done so, that would be OK. The problem seems to be with the law which prohibits you from downgrading FAC rated air rifles back to the 12 ft lb limit. Once a firearm always a firearm, and making the rifle FAC rated affects its resale value due to the limited market. The advice to tune to under 12 ft lbs is prudent because the law as set out on earlier threads is that if the gun "is capable of" exceeding 12 ft lbs then yes you would be in unlawful possession with the much-vaunted minimum 5 year sentence (Judges do have some discretion in that and if it was an innocent mistake I doubt whether 5 years would be the result!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 The advice to tune to under 12 ft lbs is prudent because the law as set out on earlier threads is that if the gun "is capable of" exceeding 12 ft lbs then yes you would be in unlawful possession with the much-vaunted minimum 5 year sentence (Judges do have some discretion in that and if it was an innocent mistake I doubt whether 5 years would be the result!) So for innocently going out shooting rabbits on land where you have permission with an air rifle that with certain pellets has 12.1 ftlbs of energy you can theoretically end up in pokey for 5 years. If on the other hand you choose to sit in a bus shelter and shoot out all the adjacent lights and terrorise the neighbourhood using an air rifle of just 11.5ftlbs you get a £40 fine. Hmmmm the looneys really are running the asylum !!! Just out of interest how many of you have had the power of your air rifle checked while you were using it legitimately (this doesn't include killing babies while shooting at firemen). ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry c Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 my s300 went for repair, while there i recieved a phone call saying it was over the limit and it would have to lowered. think it was because i put it to 11.9 with Accupels and they tested using Bisley Magnums. Any way it came back with a special allen bolt with a pin in the center, covering the grub screw which changes the power. I chronoed it at 11.5ft pnds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 I agree this sucks when viewed as a comparison!! When I was shooting at a FT club I'd regularly have my gun checked. Had a HW77 drop to 7 ft lbs due to knackered spring - still knocked over targets at 45 yds though ! As I said, the legislation bringing in the 5 years , although promoted as a "minimum sentence" gives some discretion to Judges to drop the minimum. Here in Bristol, after the legislation was brought in, there was a case of someone on a council estate who deliberately acquired a full bore handgun or two and got much less than 5 years. The judge said it was because there was no indication he was going to use it (the ammo components the Police found did not fit the guns) or supply it to others for use. A collector on the wrong side of the track was the court's view I suppose. Still it would not help improve one's standing in the eyes of the local firearms licensing department. I doubt that the CPS would prosecute unless you had been up to no good with the gun. A police officer should not simply approach you in the field and take your gun away for testing unless he has reasonable grounds to suspect you have broken the law. I posted not long ago about an officer asking his colleagues to take my rifle away for testing, thankfully his collegues had a bit more judgment than the original officer. In reality if you take the p1$$ you may get caught out. If you are the type to crank up your rifle & pop it off in the local neighbourhood then you deserve all you get. And a £40 fine is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Red Stag, I'm sure you appreciate this but for the sake of others who might be reading this, having the slot on your FAC is not enough. You would have to tell the police that you had acquired the rifle & where you got it etc, obviously if it was one you had earlier which you then modified and told the police you had done so, that would be OK. I'm building a airrifle, so what I mean is that If it should make it so i am getting good groups at say 13ft/lb - I wont have to worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted May 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 . I doubt that the CPS would prosecute unless you had been up to no good with the gun. A police officer should not simply approach you in the field and take your gun away for testing unless he has reasonable grounds to suspect you have broken the law We are talking about this Knee jerk reaction Labour Government here do you think they'll allow the police and the cps to use their discretion?,Especially with MAG(mothers against guns calling for a minimum of 10 years )which is a bit unrealistic for a over the limit air gun.As i understand there are no grounds for leeway with this law which is basically brought in to deter inner city crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 . I doubt that the CPS would prosecute unless you had been up to no good with the gun. A police officer should not simply approach you in the field and take your gun away for testing unless he has reasonable grounds to suspect you have broken the law We are talking about this Knee jerk reaction Labour Government here do you think they'll allow the police and the cps to use their discretion?,Especially with MAG(mothers against guns calling for a minimum of 10 years )which is a bit unrealistic for a over the limit air gun.As i understand there are no grounds for leeway with this law which is basically brought in to deter inner city crime. So which poses more of a threat to society, someone out in the middle of nowhere with 35 years experience of using all manner of guns, shooting rabbits with an air rifle with say 25ftlbs energy or some nutter roaming around shooting at kids in the middle of a housing estate with an 11 ftlb gun ?. I really can't see and justification for the limit, it is arbitary and pointless and just leads to more aggravation for people legitimately hunting who wish to cleanly kill their quarry. The plethora of pellets available today render it virtually impossible to set up a PCP to the limit without risking going slightly over by using a different pellet. There must be some sensible tolerance applied when testing, the chronograph itself must have an error tolerance allowance ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted May 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Old rooster ,i could'nt agree with you more .The laws in this country are inconsistant(i'm on my soap box now)so i'll move on.My point is that to appease certain groups this government might well make an example of some unlucky person with an 25ftlb airgun irrelevant of the fact that he poses no threat unlike the workshy yob or layabout who'll no doubt have support groups eager to send him /her on a safari to kenya as punishment.I make this point to my friends to be extra vigilant and careful ,as the law seems to suit those not bothered about breaking it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilv Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 (edited) We all need to obey the law, but if we look at the most feeble true firearm round, the .22 rimfire standard load, we might note that it delivers a muzzle energy of slightly more than a hundred foot pounds. I'd just ask whether the CPS would consider it in the public interest to prosecute some unfortunate and otherwise law abiding chap, whose nicely kept air rifle happened to be delivering 12.5 ft pounds of energy on a particular day, rather than the 11.9 the gunsmith set it up for. If someone had taken obvious steps to produce a flagrantly unlawful weapon, particularly if he then attracted attention to himself, that might be a different matter. Also, some might say the police could take a different view to the CPS, since one or two like nothing better than to take a hostile approach to weapons of any sort - even table legs, so it seems... By the way, using Chairgun, I discovered that if I were to walk towards the chronograph at four miles an hour as I discharge my springer, I take it from a legal 11.790 ft pounds to an unlawful 12.037! Worse still, if I were to run at 10MPH, it might get as high as 12.370 - but maybe I should stop splitting hairs and just enjoy the thing without imagining the plod hiding behind every clump of nettles... Edited June 3, 2005 by Evilv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 I have a couple of mates who are shall we say are in the legal trade I have disscused the "mandatory" 5 year rule with them and even though I always thought that as say in industry a mandatory sign means MUST! to the legal boys mandatory means a MAXIMUM dont ask me how? it seems they judge on intent! useage? and other circumstances, chap up here has been done for having an air rifle above the 12ftlbs limit he also had mace and a number of other "things" dont think he got a year and he a record list as long as cliff richard!! Recently had a lad 19 year old firing an air rifle from abus stop approx 100 pellets fired took out street lamps etc got a £47 fine and a conditional discharge? mandatory rule for UNLAWFULL possesion is 5 years? big difference here, personally I reckon anyone who has the need to use an air rifle be it ft hft or just for pest control should if possible apply for an fac! ok its a pain but at least its pre-emptive but may may help prevent nanny state draconian dogma being dropped on us? cheers Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 of 5 Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 My gun is licensed but most of my freinds have DIY tweaked up theobens etc? I'd find some other friends. If shooting with them and they're pulled and it's let out you knew that they had no FAC (and lets face it you've admitted such on an open forum!) plod will revoke yours faster than you can moan about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Unfortuantly rules are rules, WE can see the sense or nonsense in these rules but the powers that be cannot. 12lb/ft it is and thats that. It's a bit like the speed limits on the road. Does 30mph mean you can do 40mph if no one is looking? I know the parralells are not exact but I hope you get my point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 but if you have the gun "Regulated" they will not prosecute. Can you expand on "Regulated". I have seen alot of people mention owning regulated rifles but I dont know exactly what they are referring too. I understand the term, it is rather self explanatory, but how does one go about regulating a rifle. I own a BSA Springer and an S16 PCP, is the the later regulated from factory? Regards, Axe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 of 5 Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 You are the only one using the word regulated to mean that! Regulated in an airgun context means a pcp that has a lower pressure air chamber for the fireing pot. The 200 bar or so main chamber is regulated down to 80-110 bar or so for the fireing chamber thus eliminating the power curve you get on knock-open valve type pcps. It makes the gun more air efficient increasing the number of shots per charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.