Beno Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Buying my fist stalking rifle soon got my rifle and that sorted now my problem is which scope to get and moderator to go for, i've got the fallowing options at the minute in the scopes: Schmidt and Bender 8 x 56 30mm tube ... £545 Swarovski 8 x 56 …. £595 Zeiss 8 x 56 …. £545 Meopta Meostar 7 x 56 …. £395 Now what I am after some in put from you guys on what you would go for and reviews on the scopes The moderators I’ am looking at are the wildcat or the t8 some people have said that the wildcat shoots slack and that the t8 has problems with welds busting. If anyone had experience with the moderators and could tell me a bit about the performance of them it would help my decision. Thanks Lads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 The scope answer is easy, none of those will be bad, but which one looks best to YOUR eyes. Easier said than done, but try and get look through all of them before deciding. PM Mungler he probably owns most of those Have a look at ASE Utra mods, more money but great products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancs Lad Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 DM80 Mod for your centrefire mate. As for the scopes you have already been given the answer. Im going to be sticking a S&B onto mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) Beno, As Stuart has alluded to, optics is a very subjective discussion point, but here's my own input if it's of any help. I've owned the S&B, Zeiss and Swarovski scopes you've listed and I've owned the Meopta's bigger brother (3-12x56). I've kept the Zeiss 8x56, as it offers me simply astonishing performance in low light. I sold the Meopta in a moment of stupidity that I regret deeply: as an all-round stalking and foxing scope, the Meostar is impressive and significantly better than Meopta's more common Artemis series of scopes. Almost all the scopes I now have are Zeiss Victory, not due to a blinkered loyalty to one brand, but due to the superlative quality of Zeiss glass. I still have a Swaro 6-24x50 on a foxing rifle, which does a great job at sucking in all available light, but Zeiss to my eyes still beats Swarovski glass on clarity and resolution, albeit to a very slight degree. I also dislike the turrets on the Swarovski PV/AV scopes, which are quite small and weedy. In summary, my vote goes to Zeiss if the money is available, and the Meostar if the budget is tighter. You clearly have a budget for good glass. Apply the same logic to buying a mod - don't get a tinny and rust-prone T8, or a bulky yet inefficient Wildcat. Get something made by ASE Utra, PES or Brugger & Thomet, whether it is muzzle-mounted or a reflex design (I use two of ASE's Jet-Z Compacts on my stalking rifles, and various other ASE mods on other rifles). You get what you pay for. What rifle (calibre?) and rings/bases have you got lined up? Balders Edited July 9, 2009 by Baldrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beno Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Beno, As Stuart has alluded to, optics is a very subjective discussion point, but here's my own input if it's of any help. I've owned the S&B, Zeiss and Swarovski scopes you've listed and I've owned the Meopta's bigger brother (3-12x56). I've kept the Zeiss 8x56, as it offers me simply astonishing performance in low light. I sold the Meopta in a moment of stupidity that I regret deeply: as an all-round stalking and foxing scope, the Meostar is impressive and significantly better than Meopta's more common Artemis series of scopes. Almost all the scopes I now have are Zeiss Victory, not due to a blinkered loyalty to one brand, but due to the superlative quality of Zeiss glass. I still have a Swaro 6-24x50 on a foxing rifle, which does a great job at sucking in all available light, but Zeiss to my eyes still beats Swarovski glass on clarity and resolution, albeit to a very slight degree. I also dislike the turrets on the Swarovski PV/AV scopes, which are quite small and weedy. In summary, my vote goes to Zeiss if the money is available, and the Meostar if the budget is tighter. You clearly have a budget for good glass. Apply the same logic to buying a mod - don't get a tinny and rust-prone T8, or a bulky yet inefficient Wildcat. Get something made by ASE Utra, PES or Brugger & Thomet, whether it is muzzle-mounted or a reflex design (I use two of ASE's Jet-Z Compacts on my stalking rifles, and various other ASE mods on other rifles). You get what you pay for. What rifle (calibre?) and rings/bases have you got lined up? Balders Got a tikka lite 243. in stainless and Optilock bases and rings how much more money are the ase ultra and the other ones you have mentioned to the t8 and wildcat Thanks Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ROBSON Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 The short answer is, I'd buy the S&B and the Wildcat. That's what I would choose anyway. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Ben, tha'll be a good combo. I paid £240-£250 for each of the ASE Jet-Z Compacts. Other ASE mods are slightly cheaper. A T8 will probably set you back £180-£200, and a Wildcat will probably be about £200-£220. ASE mods are tiny, built to last and offer better sound attenuation than a T8/Wildcat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 ASE's have gone up recently (hasn't everything) but they are still well worth the money for size/performance they offer IMO. http://aseutra.fi/english/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Best value for money IMHO: S&B 8x56 second hand £300 PES mod second hand £150 Leaves plenty left over for bipod, shooting bag / rest, sling, tastey mounts etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I sold the Meopta in a moment of stupidity that I regret deeply......... Love my Meopta and my Wildcat, both on my 6.5x55, I looked into these 4-5 yrs ago and don`t regret the investment. However all my stalking tends to be over open fields and not much in woodland and if it were the other way around I may have gone for a lower mag scope and dispensed with the mod too as I can get up to 3 shots off at a pod(?) of roe in an open field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beno Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Thanks guys for your help I am off to the gun shop tomorrow so I’ll ask him about the ASU mods they sound really good I was looking on there website and the reduce the sound by -32 db over the t8s -22 db, Baldrick how do you find the extra length with the ASU mods as I can find anything to say the go over the barrel like the t8. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 While he types that lot out have a look at this. NS_data_sheet.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) Those 10 decibels make a noticeable difference, Ben. The added length of the muzzle-mounted ASE mods is no bother to me, and I use one of them on a whopping 26"-barrelled rifle with no ill effects. Any perceived issue about overall length is a small price to pay for the significantly greater efficiency of the ASE mods. ASE Utra also makes an over-barrel moderator of matte stainless steel called the 'Northstar', designed to compete directly with the T8 and Wildcat P8 on both price and size. It's not yet featured on ASE's website, but the UK importer, Jackson Rifles, has a specification sheet for it on this link: http://www.jacksonrifles.com/files/datasheets/UKdatapack.zip (any RFD that has an account with Jackson will be able to source you one). Have a search for 'Northstar' on here for photos and more info. From my own experience, don't get taken in with chat about strippable moderators or ones with modular features like additional/replaceable baffles. Centrefire mods do not need to be cleaned (other than a blast of WD40), as the muzzle blast burns out any excessive fouling. Edit: the alarmingly keen Stuart beat me to it with the Northstar info. Edited July 9, 2009 by Baldrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethevanman Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) Ive got a 6 x 42 on my 243 at the minute and use that mainly for Roe and Fallow stalking. I have shot over 200 rounds through my 243 with a T8 and it does come shoot loose after about a box with me, I have set it up correct and used a file to get the bushing to go onto the barrel the right size. It is good and probably the most popular moderator for the money. However, after that many people advance to an ASE : LINK OR THE PES...but the LEI has been told to be very noise reductive. Steve Edited January 21, 2010 by stevethevanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 ...but the LEI has been told to be very noise reductive. It has indeed, but it is bulkier than ASE's Compact and s5 series, and trying to obtain an LEI mod is pretty difficult due to supply issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cushat Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Thanks guys for your help I am off to the gun shop tomorrow so I’ll ask him about the ASU mods they sound really good I was looking on there website and the reduce the sound by -32 db over the t8s -22 db, Baldrick how do you find the extra length with the ASU mods as I can find anything to say the go over the barrel like the t8. Thanks In the process of having a couple of inches off the end of my sako barrel as the Jet-Z compact just made the whole set up a bit unweildy - especially out of a vehicle when lamping etc. The Jet Z is about the same weight as a T4, but it does hang off the front a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Cushat, I've only had the barrel on my .22-250 foxing rifle chopped (20" excluding ASE CQB mod). For stalking use, I'm less fussed by the additional length, and as I carry my rifles muzzle-down, there's less of an issue with balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 The T8 is a good moderator .Most of the corrosive damage is done at the end of a few hours zeroing when that corrosive condense that builds up inside the baffles is allowed to sit there for a few weeks . Non of the moderators are worth the money but my choice would be one that that is made from stainless and has 2 points of contact with the barrel .I believe one called the A10 came out based on the T8 design but my reference to them on my favs shows no web page now for some reason You have an eye for europeon glass .I'm a S/B man having both 8 x 56 in 25 and 30mm tubes and before you ask there is no difference in poor light conditions . Kahles is worth a look though . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisv Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Is this the one you're refering to Ive? I've handled one and it seemed well made, would be interested to know if they're any good though. http://www.border-barrels.com/sound_moderators.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 S&B 8X56 and T8 Mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Is this the one you're refering to Ive?I've handled one and it seemed well made, would be interested to know if they're any good though. http://www.border-barrels.com/sound_moderators.html Actually although very similar Chris it is'nt but I must say that version looks far better and i for one would certainly be interested if I was in the market for one .Absolutely nothing wrong with the T8 design IMHO Have saved the link Cheers :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Absolutely nothing wrong with the T8 design IMHO Other than it is made of ferrous metal, and is about 4 times bigger then it needs to be - :yp: The world has moved a long way since it was designed, if it hadn't, we would still be driving Allegro's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytie Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) I have an S&B 7x50 and a T8. I would have preferred a stainless mod, but mine was part of a package. I am a clumsy sort so I like the double mounting point of the T8 and would be wary of any mod with a single mounting system (like the Northstar). As for effectiveness, in the sporting rifle magazine tests done last year, there was about a 2 decibel difference between any of the mods on test. ASE did not win the decibel tests. ft Edited July 13, 2009 by flytie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 My ASE CQB is single mount, my mate carrying my rifle managed to scrape it along the roof of a brick built tunnel - which was nice. That incident didn't alter the POI by even 1mm so I can't imagine what you need to do to it to affect that. Although my PES T12 wasn't specifically for a .223, to my Mk 1 earhole the ASE is probably half as loud as the PES. I can't vouch for the other mods they make, but for a .22 centrefires ASE's are it, the others need a serious rethink if they want to keep up. To balance it out, I have just thought of a con to go with all the pro's.. Shooting the stalkers test with mine (10 shots in about 5 minutes) on one of the hotest days we have had this year, it got very hot. I can't think of any others. And no, I don't work for them :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Other than it is made of ferrous metal, and is about 4 times bigger then it needs to be - :look: The world has moved a long way since it was designed, if it hadn't, we would still be driving Allegro's Ah but the same design has now been done in stainless .................Keep up old chap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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