my fac renewal

[markbivvy]

Started back in may and it included an application for a 243 and a new slot for a new 223 which i have on my ticket on an open condition..

 

But a good few months before that i had phoned the FLD asking for a form 101,

the female feo who answered asked me what it was for, i told here it was for a 243 for deer and fox.

 

The first words out of her mouth was "you cant have one of them" when i asked her why she asked me "right then when was the last deer you shot" i told her it had been almost 2 weeks ago,

She said "oh right then if you can get that in writing we will consider it but you cant have it for fox as its to much gun".

 

So armed with this little bit of help i contacted Ian Clark of SACS and after a lengthy discussion with him decided to wait until my renewal was due to ask for the 243.

 

Paper work arrived about the middle of may and i phoned Ian for some advise on completing it, Ian took the time to talk me through it and it was filled in as it should be, i also sent with it a letter from a chap who would confirm my experience with a 243 over the last 6 years, i was advised that this was not needed in law but decided to add it any way.

 

I also included written permission from 1 farmer to shoot deer fox and vermin on land that was already cleared for 223.

 

 

A few weeks later i had a phone of the first feo, who told me the was a problem with my renewal paper work

 

first bit was that the land i had submitted in writing was already cleared for a 223 and as such they would not look at it again as it would not pass

second that the contact detail of the chap who would confirm my 243 experience was no good as they did not have the man power or the money to waste on things like this.

it also came out he did not know i had a 223 on an open ticket and told me "no you have,nt" when i said i had.

 

he went onto tell me that if i wanted to be considered for a 243 i must submit land that was already cleared for it,

I told him his information was wrong and everything he had in front of him was all he needed but he told me that if i don't send him what i wanted the 243 request would fail.

 

I asked him if i could phone him back after i had taken advise on it and he told i could take any advise i wanted but if i did not do as he asked the 243 application would not be considered.

A quick call to Ian at sacs and i was told to phone him back and tell him to grant or refuse on how the renewal was presented.

 

this call i did not want to make but i called him told him the above and was told "right i am not even going to consider your 243 application and will only look at the 223 and a mod for a 22 rf.

 

 

Another phone call to sacs resulted in a letter to the firearms department telling them a thing or to.

 

a couple of weeks later a very nice feo phoned to make an appointment for the home visit.

he arrived on time nice and polite did not want tea coffee,biscuits or a sandwich just wanted to get on with it. the interview went on for 1 and 3/4 hours before the 243 got a mention, but in short same story no cleared land no 243 then things got a bit hot i had to produce home office guidance to make him listen,paper work i had keep for 5 year from his department, end result was that he wanted me to ask people who had given me shooting invites if they would put my name down on there land as it would make the grant straight forward, i Refused point blank and had to insist that the land i has submitted was looked at again, ha agreed to this but said it could take 2 years.

will do the next bit when the dogs have been fed and walked.

[jay222]

jesus sounds like they want you to jump through some hoops

[Harnser]

That all sounds like a bit of a nightmare mark . Some of the constabularys really do try it on . They hope to put as many people off as possible at the first hurdle . Good advice is crucial at this stage of your application and dont just give up . If you can meet the criteria than you will get your .243 .

Ever thought of a move to Norfolk ? I think you will find the constabulary more sympathetic towards the shooter . A member of this forum recently gaind his FAC for .243 for fox and deer on his first application , with no insistance on dsc1 or mentoring . If it can be done in norfolk it can be done in the big jungle of Leeds . Keep pressing on mark you will get there .

Harnser .

[magman]

Mark don't do hoops

[Beardo]

what a bloody nightmare, hope it gets sorted

[Justintime]

Another feo that dont know **it from shine These forces just want to sing there own tune, its time they ALL read the firearms act properly

[mayfly36]

And i thought we got it bad over here. Eagerly awaiting the second episode.

[taffygun]

It sounds to me like you've really pee'd on their chips M8 and now they are doing everything in their power to make things very very difficult for you

[markbivvy]

2 Weeks later i was out shooting when the mobile rang, feo from the visit,

He tells me the chap who would confirm my 243 use would not provide a letter saying i could shoot on his land so my 243 application ended there, i nearly lost it big time here and told him that i did not want land thats was someone Else's i wanted my own land checking, he told me his boss would not give me a 243 unless i sent it cleared land,

i told him i would phone sacs and see what they say, i also told him he had wasted 2 weeks as the chap he had spoke to had been on Holiday, and i would be asking sacs to out in a complaint as the whole renewal was turning into a farce.

he then told me he wouls ask his boss if the land could be looked at, but it was the ARV chaps who do the land clearance not the FLD and as such could take up to 2 years to do and if on the day the ARV lads did not see any deer the land would fail.

 

another call to sacs to be told most of what i knew anyway that some feo,s would be better of employed selling news papers on a street corner.

 

MY ticket was due to run out on the 28 july, 2 week before this i had heard nothing from the FLD so got onto ian clark, which resulted into a phone call from another feo, feo number 3.

she told me not to worry as my ticket would not run out before my new one arrived and she would put a note in it saying the 243 application was still going on if the land check had not been completed.

3 days before my ticket run out my new one arrived with no mention of the 243 and the wrong conditions on my 223.

This resulted in a very strong letter from sacs .

 

more soon.

[Justintime]

It sounds to me like you've really pee'd on their chips It s no good letting them walk all over you and letting them smack your rsss at every turn If you dont stand up for yourself and keep letting them do it and you be frightened of upseting them then god help you its time to grow hair on your chin and stand and be counted . BASC FOR ONE in my opinion are NOT doing there jobs only thing i have seen is these silly corses they introduce to fatten their bank ballence. then the plod take this as a minumum standard before they will grant. All NOT IN THE FRIEARMS ACT

Edited August 6, 2009 by Justintime

[markbivvy]

a short while after Ian clark had sent me a copy of the letter he had emailed them i had a phone call from feo number 3 saying have perplexed they was and amazed that ian clark had sent the letter he did as the firearms department where doing ever thing they could to try and help me and even the department manager was keen to grant this application

but as there had been legal action mentioned in the letter any more doings i had with the department would be through the manager.

monday just gone 9.10 am a phone call from the man who can tells me the land check is fine, the ticket would be granted for deer fox and vermin, with the condition of use on land deemed suitable by the chief of police

when i asked why the COP condition he tells me i have no experience with a 243 and cant have it on an open.

i asked him to look at my application for the details of the chap who would confirm that i had been shooting a 243 longer than i had owned a 223 and Ian clark would not be best pleased if he was going to partially grant the 243. he found the note but there was no mention at all of the call feo number 2 had made to him, he told me he would phone him himself and get back to me.

10 minutes later a young lady phoned me back to ask me to send my ticket in for the addition of the 243 with an open condition.

it got here this afternoon.

I am in no doubt at all if it had not been for Ian clark and SACS i would not have it

there is a lot more i would like to say about how this whole renewal was done

but have been told some things are best left not said.

 

anyone at all having any kind of aggro from firearms departments should consider if £30 for an organization that WILL really fight for your rights, and pay for any court appeals is a very good investment.

[magman]

Well done Mark and well done sacs

[markbivvy]

Well done Mark and well done sacs

 

Thanks rob.

[Justintime]

Top do mate

[mayfly36]

Yes, a good result AGAIN, as a fellow member off S.A.C.S. Myself, proud to be associated with an Organisation that does what exactly what it says on the tin. Well done mate.

[hodge911]

mark getting your feo to grant you .243 sounds nearly as hard as it was to get my mrs to allow me a dog but both have the same outcome only mine didnt drag on as long.

well done mate .

just to rub salt in the wounds i think i told you when i picked up rifle that my feo cleared my land up to.243 even though i only applied for .22 & .223 at first so i have been told all i have to do is put in for a variation and i,ll get my .243 added no problem

[markbivvy]

mark getting your feo to grant you .243 sounds nearly as hard as it was to get my mrs to allow me a dog but both have the same outcome only mine didnt drag on as long.

well done mate .

just to rub salt in the wounds i think i told you when i picked up rifle that my feo cleared my land up to.243 even though i only applied for .22 & .223 at first so i have been told all i have to do is put in for a variation and i,ll get my .243 added no problem

top man peter thanks.

sounds like you have one of the better FLD,S.

good luck to you mate.

Edited August 6, 2009 by markbivvy

[celtic invader]

Good result! It just proves that if you keep a cool head and use the right contacts when you get into trouble - it will all work out in the end.

 

I have an open for everything up to .308 (I’ve not had the bottle to ask for a 50 cal as yet) and would confirm that I have had the fullest co-operation from my FLO and all staff involved over the past 30 years and hope that it continues. However it is a common problem that the Firearms Legislation continues to be 'interpreted' by different forces in different ways and until BASC or SACS, or other interested groups that represent the shooting public, get a grip with the Home Office and unify the application process - unfortunately we will continue to see this type of problem.

 

Do not let Mark's experience put anyone off making their application. If you are a 'suitable' person (I am not going to qualify the word suitable as that is for you to interpret in line with the legislative requirements) and have good reason to possess and use firearms in a safe and professional manner, then make your application. Just remember that you are more likely to succeed first time if you can provide all the pre-requisite confirmation and information required by your FLO. If you try to get by on a wing and a prayer, you are playing into the hands of those who would prefer to decline your application.

 

It is not a difficult process so keep a cool head and persevere.

[taffygun]

I have to agree CI... I have open certificate for FAC Air, 22LR, HMR and .222 and only possessed FAC for 2 and a half years. I phoned and had a conversation with my FEO about getting into Deer Stalking and was in two minds over a .243... the result of the conversation was a grant for .308 (closed) and Muntjac and CWD added to my .222

 

As far as my FAC goes i've never had to argue anything, if i've asked for something and been told to wait then i've waited.... to my knowledge that was for open on the Air rifle after 18 months and he told me to wait til I had it 2 years, which I did and I was rewarded with all of the above.

 

Also just to add, if my ticket has had to go back for any reason, variation, conditions removed/changed etc it has never been out of my possession for more than a week I hope that this will continue all through my shooting life, however long it lasts

[DaveK]

All I have to say is

 

YAH BOO SUCKS TO THE SACS BASHERS

 

BASC certainly would NOT have been so proactive. Or as quick to act.

 

Now come back and prove that they would :lol:

[marky123]

hiya

Whats SACS?

MARK

[robmiller]

I asked for a 22lr and a 243, initially for deer and foxes. They asked for specific deer permissions too which i couldnt provide. So on my interview i just said, drop the deer. Keep the fox and vermin control......absolutely fine...no questions asked.

Seems as though there is no cohesion and unity with regards to whats acceptable and whats not.

[willy1]

hiya

Whats SACS?

MARK

 

 

It's the Scottish Association for Country Sports, costs £30 p.a and is the best. Go to www.sacs.org.uk

 

Alan

[MC]

All I have to say is

 

YAH BOO SUCKS TO THE SACS BASHERS

 

BASC certainly would NOT have been so proactive. Or as quick to act.

 

Now come back and prove that they would :lol:

 

 

Maybe that is because BASC have more than 10 members

 

How do you know they wouldn't have been so quick?

[MM]

AARRRGGGHHH!!! not another bashing thread

 

Well dome Mark on getting it sorted, even with all the ******* about.