best load for deer

[jinxy72]

right all .... plan on doing dsc and have read an article on shooting deer with different rounds . firstly i know .243 is min in the england but the article i read stated that using a faster lighter bullet made much more of a mess of the carcess than say a heavier .308 round.

 

now saying as a .308 could be used for boar etc and all breed of deer .... is it better to shoot all with a .308 ?

 

whats peoples opinion on this ?

Edited August 18, 2009 by jinxy72

[Harnser]

The differance between a .308 and a .243 is that the .308 kills them quicker and deader .

Harnser .

[magman]

What about the old .270

[Harnser]

What about the old .270

Even more deader .

Harnser .

[Tommo]

Minimum for deer is .22cf for the two smaller species - which in my opinion/own experience is a crime in itself and talking to deer managers l truely believe a minimum of a 100gr bullet should be in place. A heavy bullet does not nessisarily mean it drops something 'better' a lot of deer managers use various weights depnding on job in hand. A couple of managers l know well use largish calibres but 123gr bullets - mainly for the predictable placements over short and long ranges. I use a .308 and by god with cheap ammo its a cannon, more expensive ammo Fed/RWS etc it shoots totally different, also l've been using 150gr, and l'm considering lowering the bullet weight to get better/more predictable peformance.

[Suffolk shooter]

Minimum for deer is .22cf for the two smaller species

 

For England, whilst Roe can also be taken in Scotland and only then when used with a minimum 50 grain bullet.

 

Depends on exactly what type of stalking and how much you're going to be doing. If you are looking at Fox and Deer with the emphasis on Fox, then a .243 is perfectly capable of taking out all species of Deer when using 105 grain bullet and of course in the right hands.

 

Stick to the 105 grain bullet for foxing, as a dead fox is a dead fox and meat damage isn't a concern, plus if out stalking deer with 105 in the chamber, and a fox walks out you're not going to change ammo and then make allowances for placement due to a lighter bullet. Are you?

 

Likewise if a deer presents itself whilst out shooting foxes in the permitted daylight hours, you're not going to suddenly change to a heavier weight bullet.

 

Like shotguns and any other rifle, stick to one make of cartridge/bullet that you have complete confidence in. You can't go wrong.

 

SS

[henry d]

Minimum for deer is .22cf for the two smaller species - which in my opinion/own experience is a crime in itself and talking to deer managers l truely believe a minimum of a 100gr bullet should be in place.

 

Slight tangent to the OP, I have taken lots of Roe with both the .222 (50gn) and 6.5x55 (140gn) and I haven`t lost one and much prefer the .222 for Roe, can`t say about Munties and CWD.

[mallet]

.243 drops Fallow with ease and never had considerable meat damage. I'd say placement is more important than how large and heavy a round is. Also different types and makes of bullet all react differently from different rifles. As for large Reds hill stalking i would prefer a larger calibre, guys i've spoken to like the 30-06 i think.

[casts_by_fly]

don't think of it as heavier vs lighter. Think heavy for caliber vs light for caliber. For any given cartridge, a lighter bullet is going to go a bit faster while maintaining overall about the same energy. For instance, a 75 gr vs 100 gr in 243- both will have about the same energy (it all comes from the propellant) but the 75 is lighter for caliber (and thus has a lower sectional density) than the 100. The higher the sectional density (weight for caliber) the deeper a bullet will penetrate compared to a bullet of the same construction at lower SD. If you are going lighter on the power end (centerfire 22's and smaller 6mm's) you want to stick to the heavier for caliber bullets. In the 25's and 6.5's the middle weight bullets and up will be the target. Once you hit 270/7mm/30 cal you have to pick a very light for caliber bullet (such as a 110 gr in a 30 cal) in a varmint weight to make a bad choice.

 

Of course bullet construction comes into play. A tougher bullet can be a little lighter for weight than a standard bullet. Consider the Barnes X bullet which is very tough and can be ~15-25% lighter than the equivalent penetrating cup and core bullet.

 

A 308 with a 150 or 165 gr bullet is about as all around as you're going to get for this country. Our standard deer/coyote/groundhog load was a 30-06 with a 165gr nosler B-tip. I know that my rifle will put 3 in under an inch with that load, which is plenty for any hunting I'll do with it.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[harry mac]

Firstly, I'll admit to being biassed, I've taken deer for the past 13 years almost exclusively with 308 and it is a very good cartridge. I'm about to take delivery of a 243 though, and I'll post my findings when I've had a chance to compare the two personally. I've also used 303 with some success, but a couple of unexplained misses made me slightly lose confidence in that calibre. Put it in the right place and a deer won't know the difference between a 222 and a 577 NE.

[old man]

Jinxy, IMHO you need to be aware of the felt recoil from the larger calibres, it could be the case that a 30 cal might make you flinch and hence more inaccurate!

They certainly kick more sharply than a .243

The .243 is certainly not a baby calibre in any way, then you will need to find bullets and loads your particular gun likes!

[Baldrick]

Jinxy, IMHO you need to be aware of the felt recoil from the larger calibres, it could be the case that a 30 cal might make you flinch and hence more inaccurate!

 

Old man, as you know, perceived recoil can be mitigated to an extent by good gun fit, the use of ballast (or an inherently heavy rifle), appropriate stance and a moderator/muzzle brake. My .30-06 shot from the bench with the moderator removed is a horrible thing; my heavy, well-fitting .470 double shot from a standing position, is relatively speaking a pussycat. I have owned and shot several spiteful .243s, and conversely my experience of owning a .270, a calibre with a legendary reputation for brutatility, has been nothing but positive.

 

Rick, I'm amused to learn that you hunted groundhog with a .30-06, firing 165gr B-tip? Was there much left of your quarry?

Edited August 20, 2009 by Baldrick

[casts_by_fly]

they don't expand that much on a hog. Caliber hole in, 50p coin going out. At least if you shoot them from more than 100 yards or so. There was one that I snap shot from about 20 yards. We were walking out through the field to watch for hogs and this one just popped out of his hole. There was a bit of a mess on that one.

 

We always kept the same loads and loaded them by the hundred or so. We'd never go through that many in 10 years of deer hunting, so we always used them for everything.

 

I wish there were groundhogs in this country.

 

Thanks

Rick

[maddog546]

Baldrick as you mentioned the legendary brutality of the .270 I have to agree when using this round in the field I would not put the recoil much more than my .223,but when sat tight and trying to be as solid as possible to check zero you are reminded of what a beast she can be.

Look at the ballistics and she carries so much energy it has to be the round of choice for all the larger Deer species,but bullet placement is still the key,all I use is Federal 130 grains a superbly accurate and consistant round,which gives you confidence to squeeze the trigger on your given target.

Mind you I am well built at 5'8" and 15 stone so that has to come into the equation as to suitability of calibre to the person using it,as someone who has done manual work all his life I suppose I would consider most rifle recoil acceptable ,whereas someone who works in an office and is say 12 stone in weight might not have the same opinion as myself as to suitability of a given calibre.

This is probably the solution for the common arguement over best calibre,its what best suits the individual by Stature,Calibre,Ability and Spieces they are hunting.

 

As Harnser states the .270 makes things deader!!!!

But in reality dead is dead and thats what counts,no lingering death,humanely dispatched is the thing to install in anyone that goes hunting be it rats to Red Deer ,they all deserve a quick end.

 

 

Happy hunting in what ever calibre you choose,Keith

[jinxy72]

thanks for all the info guys lots to consider and before i make a choice i will prob wait until i have done my dsc 1 . ( as i would have tried .243 etc then )

 

your own build has been mentioned for coping with the recoil .. well i aint small really 5' 10" , 13.5 st and played rugby for 23yrs ( before retiring ) so i aint really bulit like a girly footballer ( had to have a dig )

 

i wouldnt expect to have much of a prob with the right .308 ( but ov would try first before buying )

 

am i right in saying a .243 with a heavier bullet would still be accurate and wouldnt make to much damage of the meat?

[lapwing]

As Baldrick says, for a universal rifle in the UK the venerable .270 is hard to beat. People always go on about bullet damage, but surely that is the whole idea of a rifle whatever the calibre. If you put it in the right place you will probably break one rib in and 3 out at worst, so not much different to a .243 on a roe. Sure if you get it a bit wrong and hit a soild bone things get messy, but at least your quarry isn't likely to be going anywhere much. It has the legs for foxes at decent ranges, and plenty of poke if you want to tackle the larger UK deer species.

 

I am not saying that a .243 is not big enough for any bambi in the country, just that I prefer the greater margin for avoiding a non fatal wound that the .270 has. It shoots flat & fast, is not a beast if you fit a moderator, and if you are on a tight budget they are cheap secondhand due to their pre moderator reputation.

 

Good luck with whatever you get.