inshallah Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Hi all, I've been following all the discussions here on buying a a first shotgun for a while. What do people think of a side by side as a first gun? I'll almost certainly buy second hand. Budget - 150 quid if it will do the job, but I'd spend 500 or 600 if it was absolutely necessary. I'm mainly interested in pigeon and rabbit shooting, but as a beginner I'll be getting up to speed on clays at first. Clay shooting is certainly a secondary interest - just enough to feel competent to shoot at live quarry and keep in practice. The other guns I'd considered were a new baikal O/U, or maybe other 2nd hand O/U, but I think I like the idea of a side by side being light to carry about. A couple of specific questions: Are there any side by side makes or models to look for or steer clear of? Is it better to get something a few years old or something really old, like an old british 'farmers gun'? How will I know if I'm buying a useless old knacker or something that will serve me well? I'll probably be shopping in Neath or Lampeter. Anyone know if these shops will give good advice and help with gun fit etc.? Many thanks for comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 good plan my first gun was an old sbs 12 ga, double trigger. it was a brute of a thing, very heavy and awkward, and scared the **** out of me the first time i loosed off both barrels at once it was great as a beginner gun - fixed chokes so no confusion with that, easy to clean, good for beginner safety - very easy to see if its loaded etc, - and, dare i say it, able to take more of a hammering than most other guns would have! had to get rid of it (long story) but id have it back in the morning if i could i wouldnt go for something ancient, but theres plenty of nice looking ones for sale here lately, at decent money. once you learn to shoot with it you'll know what it is you need/want in a gun, so means youre less likely to end up spending a load of money on something that doesnt suit you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinxy72 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 good plan ... why dont u have a look on here for one .... will get a much better gun for ur money rather than buying from a dealer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inshallah Posted August 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 good plan ... why dont u have a look on here for one .... will get a much better gun for ur money rather than buying from a dealer That's an idea. I was wondering about gun fit 'though. Is this something I should be worrying about at this stage? I'm 5 foot 3 (short a***) so maybe a lot of off the peg guns may not suit. Guess I could always handle a few in the shop without committing to buy. Kind of feel the shop deserves a sale if they find the gun for me 'though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I would get an O/U as a first gun and fit is very important. You'll find it far easier to learn with and you'll shoot better with it. Theres nothing more likely to put you off shooting than not hitting things and getting knocked about by a gun. Side by sides mainly being game guns tend to be lighter and as such you do get more recoil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I would get an O/U as a first gun and fit is very important. You'll find it far easier to learn with and you'll shoot better with it. Theres nothing more likely to put you off shooting than not hitting things and getting knocked about by a gun. Side by sides mainly being game guns tend to be lighter and as such you do get more recoil What utter rot. I, as did thousands of shooters before me, had an rubbishy old Side by side as my first gun (World war II BSA). I found the stock was too short!, so I simply bunched a couple of socks together and masking taped them to the stock to add a bid more length. Shooting, like everything else, if you take your equipment too seriously to start of with:- you'll have no fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 but if you handicap yourself equipment wise to start with its far harder to learn, look at clay grounds up and down the country and show me one instructor who would start a new shot with a side by side. There is logic there cost is immaterial I'm not suggesting spend a lot hell as one person on here will testify to I gave an old O/U to a new shooter so you don't get a much cheaper introduction to shooting. I've a mate who learned at the same time as I did and I still shoot with him, he was traditional farming background learnt to shoot with a side by side and never shot it well, after watching me and using mine went out and as farmers do produced a wad of cash and bought a 686 and went out and shot far better with it best thing he ever did shooting wise and I don't think I've seen him out with a side by side since. Most people have one as a "fun" or game gun when they want to show a bit of tradition not many shoot them as well as their over and unders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I must be the opposite Alex, had them all, & in all the years shooting I've settled down with what I started with, a SxS, one that I got given, 26" barrels, cast on stock, boxlock n/e. Just seems to fit right. If there's one gun that I wouldn't have, it would be a O/U. I don't shoot clays by the way, BJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziplex Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I bought an old BSA side by side not long after I started shooting for £60, it's a lovely old thing but I just don't like using it too much. It's very light and a bit heavy on recoil if you intend shooting pigeon and can get a bit tiring after 30 or so carts, last time i used it I got a headache and it's stayed in the cabinet since. You really have to try a few out before you buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Shooting, like everything else, if you take your equipment too seriously to start of with:- you'll have no fun. Exactly, at the end of the day they all do the same job. My original budget for my first gun was £200 tops and I managed to get myself a nice Spanish 20G S/S which I absolutely love and still have. Have a look around, you should be able to pick up a half decent 12g or 20g within your budget, and as long as the barrels are OK then take it from there. Same with cartridges, buy several different types and see which ones best suit the gun and you. You are under no obligation to buy from a shop, so ask to see several different types and see which one you like, then if you can find one cheaper elsewhere go for it. You can always pay back the original shop if their help warrants it by purchasing all your carts and other bits and pieces from them in future. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groach1234 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I must fight the corner for the good ol' traditional Side by Side, my first gun was a 12 bore S/S and i loved it but sold it as it was giving me trouble with the recoil causing a swelling on my middle finger and now use a silver pig and although i am shooting well with it (though i say so myself) i am seriously on the look out for a nice 20 bore side by side to buy some time buy what you like and i find that side by sides are plenty good enough at taking birds out the sky and look infinitely better IMO when compared to the O/U so get what feels right. George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inshallah Posted August 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I feel like I've almost done the equivalent of going on the airgunners forum and asked if .22 is better than .177. (Not trolling, honestly) But it does seem like there's a bit of 'polarisation' here. Oh well, still got a few weeks to wait for SGC. Plenty more time to try and make my mind up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I agree full on with Al4x, a side by side is not a beginners gun. If you prefer one then fine, but to start with you really should be looking at an over and under. They are easier to shoot with, more pointable and will certainly punish you a lot less with recoil, a lightwieght s x s and some 32gr cartridges will put you off shooting for life. A S/S is great for wandering about taking the odd pot shot but if you are serious about shootiing well then get an O/U. There is a reason with they are used more than any other gun by competitive clay shooters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 finally I was starting to think I was in the minority being under retirement age and prefering O/U's what you want to do is book up for some lessons at a clay ground before you buy a gun. Use their gun to start with and go from there, it would be wrong to start on live targets without by the sounds of it having much shotgun shooting experience. That will let you try a gun and see the difference and what suits you. Cost isn't much different were you to find you got on better with an O/U because there are a lot of Baikals out there that would fit the cheap gun category. I still can't believe that many shooters on here would recomend someone learns with a side by side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 finally I was starting to think I was in the minority being under retirement age and prefering O/U's You're not alone, I assure you. I too agree with MC's comment. I would not learn to shoot with a S/S. I have S/Ss, but think of them as more specialist tools for rough and driven shooting. They are not forgiving guns. I remember clearly watching Ollie/FerretMaster using a Baikal S/S (as a novice) at the PW Bisley meet in about 2006. He got absolutely mauled by the recoil, and looked pretty dispirited. The scrawny little urchin ended up thrashing most of us, as soon as he was given an O/U to use. Ollie must be representative of a lot of learners who are misguidedly steered towards S/Ss in the first instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inshallah Posted August 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 what you want to do is book up for some lessons at a clay ground before you buy a gun. I was planning to do this: http://www.hct.ac.uk/Courses/pt_country.html 99 quid for a 2 day course. Anyone any experience of this? [Fancy the gamekeeper one too - may try raising a few pheasants just as a bit of a hobby] I also have a boat a couple of miles away from the West London Shooting School, so I'll try a lesson there. Just waiting to sell my narrowboat and then I can afford some lessons (and a gun). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) i got a sxs as a first gun as well - and yes i did initally struggle with it, but i quickly got used to it - i remember wincing with the recoil to start with and missing a lot - but its grown on me and now i do most of my 'mobile' shooting with it , its lightweight, i dont care if it rains or gets dirty and i dont even notice the recoil anymore - get one if you are prepared to persevere with it. you can pick up a good nick sxs with double triggers non ejector for not a great deal of cash , so worse case scenario - you have to buy another gun its not a huge investment to lose is it? i cant put my finger on it but i 'enjoy' using it more than by o/u and s/a. good luck Edited August 21, 2009 by pegasus bridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter-peter Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 over and under every time. (end of lesson) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 oh god stitching the poor guy up with a side by side was bad enough now we've had a double trigger one suggested now that should really make his life as hard as possible I can't cope with that and I've been shooting 20 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I started with my Dads Aya No.4 with an 18" stock :( When I first started it used to knock me over (I was 14) but a year later I could mange it and shot farily well with it When I first got the semi I remeber searching for the other trigger for the next shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Bam Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 This seems to be one of those old debates that go on forever............ Side by sides were, apart for single barrels, the way it all started... but..........lets have a moment to think......progression..........we all love to shoot, dont matter what ... go and book youreself some tuition, and ask to try out both.... It is personel preference afterall, and there are still alot of variables to consider after that!!!!!!! What do you want to shoot? Do what the majority sugest, get tuition, learn to shoot....then decide if you want s/s or o/u..... There has been a few words over the years....that..if we were meant to shoot o/u....our eye's would be one on top of the other....LOL.... Goood luck, and enjoy your shooting....what ever you decide on....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Do what the majority sugest, get tuition, learn to shoot....then decide if you want s/s or o/u..... ora pump. or a semi auto.or a mag fed sgotgun. or a belt fed shogtun... now theres an idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 ora pump. or a semi auto.or a mag fed sgotgun. or a belt fed shogtun... now theres an idea... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX7vwivR6cE there ya go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossEM Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I started with an aya yeoman side by side. The only problem I had with it was the straight-hand stock - I reckon they are a big factor in why lots of shooters don't get on with side by sides. I mainly shoot an over & under now but I honestly can't say my shooting is any better or worse with it. My ideal gun would be a 20 bore side by side, single trigger and pistol grip - best of both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 This seems to be one of those old debates that go on forever............Side by sides were, apart for single barrels, the way it all started... but..........lets have a moment to think......progression..........we all love to shoot, dont matter what ... go and book youreself some tuition, and ask to try out both.... It is personel preference afterall, and there are still alot of variables to consider after that!!!!!!! Spot on. Try a few and choose what YOU like the best and what suits YOU, as you'll get a million and one different answers on here. My first gun was a S/S with double trigger and it was never a problem for me. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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