shot shot Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/8217854.stm I have to say, you're going to have to read it for yourselves, I can't quite get my head around it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTEMUP Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 That is rubbish! The guy owned £1million to some mafia. They probably killed him and his family, while setting fire to his house and making it look like he went on a rampage. There are plenty of thugs that would do this for a million pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I don't see the problem here. If a doctor feels you are mentally unfit to hold a firearm then I'd back them and say take it away. If it's proven later that you're ok you can always get your guns back, but if the guns are left with the holder and a life is taken how do you go back from there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddan Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 The guy quoting that 25% of the licence holders in the area would be depressed and there are no links to licence system for those who have suicidal thoughts makes it sound like anyone with depression wants to do themselves in, this is far from true. Sounds like a PR piece again, I had to tick the depression box on the shotgun licence and the police wrote to my GP. He showed me a copy of his response before he sent it and he made no comment on my soundness to own a gun as he said it was the polices job to decide who is right and who isn't not his. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddan Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I don't see the problem here. If a doctor feels you are mentally unfit to hold a firearm then I'd back them and say take it away. If it's proven later that you're ok you can always get your guns back, but if the guns are left with the holder and a life is taken how do you go back from there? My main problem with it is that it is another lot of data on me shared around goverment agencies who have proven time and time again not to be able to keep data secure. Walking through my doctors surgery about months back I noticed a massive pile of patient's notes left on one of the window sills in the waiting room. They might have been a better read than the out of date copy of OK magazine but still. Also anyone eho thinks their guns would get returned when 'proven ok' I think would be sadly disappointed. How do you prove you are OK. That would involve the doctors themselves saying you were fit to hold, and as per my last post they aren't willing to do that. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I still think a life is more important than a hobby. Go back to the Dunblane shootings and there were a lot of people with concerns about Hamilton, but nothing was done. I really do feel for people with depression. I can't even start to suggest I understand it, but it seems that even doctors struggle with it. Better safe than sorry in my book. If your head isn't quite right then that's unfortunate, but the possibility of stopping this kind of thing happening should come before your personal feelings. I have known a few people with depression. One of which was my stepmother who is now dead. Saying she was unstable is the understatement of the century! It's just so hard to read what's coming and there's nothing you can do to fix the issue deep down. You can take a happy pill, but then what happens if one day you miss it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddan Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) I still think a life is more important than a hobby. Go back to the Dunblane shootings and there were a lot of people with concerns about Hamilton, but nothing was done. I really do feel for people with depression. I can't even start to suggest I understand it, but it seems that even doctors struggle with it. Better safe than sorry in my book. If your head isn't quite right then that's unfortunate, but the possibility of stopping this kind of thing happening should come before your personal feelings. I have known a few people with depression. One of which was my stepmother who is now dead. Saying she was unstable is the understatement of the century! It's just so hard to read what's coming and there's nothing you can do to fix the issue deep down. You can take a happy pill, but then what happens if one day you miss it? I know what you are saying but there are such a varity of 'grades' of depression. I was mourning the loss of a family member and so was off work for 6 weeks, I was signed off by the doctor and depression was what was on my note for work. Because it was written that way on the form I declared it to be safe. And then you have the other extreme that you mentioned. I guess the real problem is that doctors use depression as such a catch all term that until someone defines some rules around it you wouldn't be able to create a workable process. Should Stress also be included? If you excluded all those who have been depressed or stressed there wouldn't be many guns in the UK. Edited August 26, 2009 by reddan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santlache Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 That is rubbish! The guy owned £1million to some mafia. They probably killed him and his family, while setting fire to his house and making it look like he went on a rampage. Except there is CCTV footage of him doing the rounds setting fire to the place etc............. I agree with NJC and don't see a problem with it whatsoever, if you are mentally ill then there is no way you should hold firearms. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Basically if it means I can see my GP earlier, becuase I'm in a high risk category, then I'm chuffed! ... Not sure it'll hurry up any dental appointments though...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I don't see the problem here. If a doctor feels you are mentally unfit to hold a firearm then I'd back them and say take it away. If it's proven later that you're ok you can always get your guns back, but if the guns are left with the holder and a life is taken how do you go back from there? I agree with njc110381 , but no doubt the paranoid will have a field day with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I was mourning the loss of a family member and so was off work for 6 weeks, I was signed off by the doctor and depression was what was on my note for work. Because it was written that way on the form I declared it to be safe. Surely that would be taken into consideration though? It wasn't a long term illness? Everyone gets depressed when they lose someone close. This system, if used properly, could have your guns taken away for a "cool down" period until you calm down and then returned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I dont see anything wrong with this idea.A doctor is the one person who can give a professional opinion of someones state of mind and if they can prevent a murder-then its fine by me.I am sympathetic towards anyone who suffers or has suffered with depression,but a life cannot be brought back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddan Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) Surely that would be taken into consideration though? It wasn't a long term illness? Everyone gets depressed when they lose someone close. This system, if used properly, could have your guns taken away for a "cool down" period until you calm down and then returned? I guess it depends on what they planned. If it was a good, solid process that was the same across all forces and did not leave the rules open to interpridation than it could be a good idea. Or, if like the current gun laws, could end up being misused to reduce the number of certificates out there and therefore reduce the risk of gun misuse by punishing those that have done nothing wrong. Edited August 26, 2009 by reddan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boromir Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 its not just guns that can kill people. If somebody was depressed and decided to kill his family gun or not he gonna kill them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdeep Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I don't see the problem here. If a doctor feels you are mentally unfit to hold a firearm then I'd back them and say take it away. If it's proven later that you're ok you can always get your guns back, but if the guns are left with the holder and a life is taken how do you go back from there? I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyr8 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 i have to get my gp to stand as a sponser for my shotgun licence,cost last time £40.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Everyone gets depressed when they lose someone close. This system, if used properly, could have your guns taken away for a "cool down" period until you calm down and then returned? What? Is this not the thin end of the wedge. I can understand a GP having a word with a FAO if someone's _seriously_ depressed, but to have them taken away when someone's just a bit down is taking things too far. Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 If I lost my family I'd be more than "a bit down" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 If I lost my family I'd be more than "a bit down" If you lost all your family, but that's a special case. How many people run amok after losing a single family member? If anything I'd say it makes people consider and value life more. Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattw Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 The concept is Ok BUT, I either dont understand or understand but dont like the statement about asking partners or Ex partners about you. This could be very badly abused, imagine, guy gets divorced breakup is a bit nasty, couple of years later the coppers ask the Ex if she feels the chap suitable for a gun. Of course she would say no, whether just to get back at the chap or because in her mind no-one should have them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyr8 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 take my gun away and i would be depressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vole Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 On the same vain there ought to be a means of assessing people with anger issues who have never been near a GP.I think there is much more of a risk from Mr Angry who batters his family rather than Mr Average who is feeling the strain from a high pressure job or as said above been bereaved or suchlike and goes to the GP. People who actually seek help are also less of a risk I think rather than someone who refuses to acknowledge they have a problem. There is a danger,not just in the case of gun owners but people with life insurance,certain jobs being punished for seeking professional help for personal problems.Rather than sorting things out at an early stage,men especially have to hit rock bottom or done something terrible before something is done. I heard of a bloke at a nearby NHS Trust who confided in his GP he had a drug and booze problem.He has now lost everything,job,driving licence,house. He is not a shooter by the way but you get the idea. Now he really is likely to do something crazy.I understand no FEO wants to give a gun to someone who really is unstable but there needs to be a more thorough way to assess people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 "Except there is CCTV footage of him doing the rounds setting fire to the place etc............." I would like to see this footage. Also this power has the ability to be misused so that people can have their guns taken away if the doctor decides so, what if the doctor is anti-gun and an enviro-nut, then I guess bye bye to your guns. Plus this power has been given to this government, what is to say that a tyrannical government which might follow in the future will not use these "innocent powers" for other means, much like the innocent census data which was taken in Weimar Germany allowed Jews to be identified easier by the "Ethnicity" on their passport once hitler came to power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wy111 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Surely that would be taken into consideration though? It wasn't a long term illness? Everyone gets depressed when they lose someone close. This system, if used properly, could have your guns taken away for a "cool down" period until you calm down and then returned? This happened to mate of mine, bad car accident, now disabled. Got his license back after a few years. Apparently it's a "flag" that comes up on your records, as do other medical reasons. Good idea, to be on the safe side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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