al4x Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 At the end of the day there are two sides to every story and the police have called into question your sons suitability to hold firearms. Now to me that is always going to happen in this kind of situation and he certainly has his story straight and the PR machine in full flow, sadly without being there we can't answer whether he placed himself between the exit and the thief and then shot the vehicle trying to escape or whether the thief did try and kill them. Ultimately the grass roots police aren't out to fit people up these days so I do tend to have a little doubt over that suggestion. Whichever way it goes good luck as I have a feeling it is going to be needed, at least he is off criminal charges though which is the main thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEshooter Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Best of luck with the case GHE, from what I have heard/read he was only doing what any of us would do to protect the life of our mum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 At the end of the day there are two sides to every story and the police have called into question your sons suitability to hold firearms. Now to me that is always going to happen in this kind of situation and he certainly has his story straight and the PR machine in full flow, sadly without being there we can't answer whether he placed himself between the exit and the thief and then shot the vehicle trying to escape or whether the thief did try and kill them. Ultimately the grass roots police aren't out to fit people up these days so I do tend to have a little doubt over that suggestion. Whichever way it goes good luck as I have a feeling it is going to be needed, at least he is off criminal charges though which is the main thing. I accept your point, i.e. that there are 2 sides to every story. There is no suggestion that any grass roots police tried to fit him up, or did anything wrong - the nearest thing to that is that a Det Con tried to get him to sign a completely false statement and told him that his own solicitor wanted him to sign it, which was a lie, but it turned out he was acting on instructions of a much more senior officer, and probably believed what he was saying. As for finding out what really happened, in this situation we have to trust the scene of crime investigators to do their job properly, and find all the evidence that was there. Unfortunately there are questions about that, the excuse was that it was a very large crime scene - however, when I visited there much later I found a couple of empty cartridges where the shooting had occurred, so I have my doubts. The problem is with the lies from the top, not about the efficiency of the investigation. The police have now admitted that he didn't shoot at the van during the chase that followed, they haven't yet admitted that they didn't find the 3 empty cartridges outside, but as they didn't follow their own procedure of tagging, photographing and bagging them and have ignored two requests (one in writing) for DNA evidence, we just have to hope that the Judge at the appeal won't accept what they say. It's just a sad fact that where the police are concerned, we don't have any choices - we can choose which school to send our kids too, which shops to buy from, which doctor and which hospital, but we have no choice over the police force for our area. As for the publicity, when the police fail us the press is all that we have left. I'm able to throw time and money at this, and have had enormous help from honest police officers, but I feel sorry for people in similar position who don't have my resources and contacts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Good luck chap and i hope you get this resolved at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countryman Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 The main problem here is that rural crime is big business for these type of scum, the law is not in place to punish them so as soon as they get a small fine they are back to it again. Most Farmers, land owners will own guns, so the Police will come down heavy on you if you use them in these conditions, other wise they will be collecting bodies on every break in, i am in no way in favour of people who think they can help themselves to your property we just need proper punishment by the courts. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stavvy Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 With the benefit of hind sight I wonder if he would have been better off just firing one shot as the van approached at the drivers side of the windscreen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 An update on this. Bill's certificates were officially revoked on 13/6/13, although the actual decision to revoke them was unofficially taken months before that. He got absolutely no help from his shooting organisation, and he then appealed to York Crown Court. After many delays, the case finally got into court on 26/1/15, and was scheduled to last for 5 days. I'm not going to comment on the police evidence because the case is still ongoing, but we are very happy with what has happened so far. We didn't get anywhere near finished in the 5 days allowed and the case will continue next week, starting on the 23rd February. We have now started a crowdfunding appeal, in the hope that supporters may help to offset some of the extra costs involved in the appeal.Even if you aren't able to donate actual cash, sharing the link on facebook or twitter will be a big help, because the more people know about it, the better the chances of getting some help.Obviously, the appeal will continue next week regardless of whether we get financial help or not, but so far we are potentially £57,0000 down (if the police get a full award of costs against Bill) and a lot more than that by the time the case is overhttp://www.gofundme.com/mivt00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi786 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 it feel so stupid, how can someone walk away with just £100 fine? :S just thinking would he stop robbing people or fining/releasing him straight way give him more motivation to do it more, as he be like hah nothing gonna happen if I be caught again...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 im broke for the following few weeks, but as soon as i get paid i will happily donate as much as i can fella. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I suspect many people who were considering whether to donate, would like to see the outcome of the trial. If he is innocent of any wrongdoing, but doesn't get costs awarded to him, then I would feel inclined to help. If the case goes against him, then I would not support funding an appeal without merit. I hope it goes well for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 An update on this. Bill's certificates were officially revoked on 13/6/13, although the actual decision to revoke them was unofficially taken months before that. He got absolutely no help from his shooting organisation, and he then appealed to York Crown Court. After many delays, the case finally got into court on 26/1/15, and was scheduled to last for 5 days. I'm not going to comment on the police evidence because the case is still ongoing, but we are very happy with what has happened so far. We didn't get anywhere near finished in the 5 days allowed and the case will continue next week, starting on the 23rd February. We have now started a crowdfunding appeal, in the hope that supporters may help to offset some of the extra costs involved in the appeal. Even if you aren't able to donate actual cash, sharing the link on facebook or twitter will be a big help, because the more people know about it, the better the chances of getting some help. Obviously, the appeal will continue next week regardless of whether we get financial help or not, but so far we are potentially £57,0000 down (if the police get a full award of costs against Bill) and a lot more than that by the time the case is over http://www.gofundme.com/mivt00 GHE, get his crowd funding appeal on to some of the american sites. they'll support this 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I suspect many people who were considering whether to donate, would like to see the outcome of the trial. If he is innocent of any wrongdoing, but doesn't get costs awarded to him, then I would feel inclined to help. If the case goes against him, then I would not support funding an appeal without merit. I hope it goes well for him. It isn't about innocence or guilt, the CPS issued a formal statement, a very long time ago, confirming his innocence. It's about whether or not the Judge accepts that he is a fit and proper person to possess guns/rifles, no more, no less. Obviously when the police evidence falls to bits under cross examination that's a great help, but it isn't really about whether the police account is true or not, and it isn't even about whether they made honest mistakes or not, it's really about whether or not a Judge (who is obviously trying very hard to be fair) accepts that Bill absolutely did have to shoot to save his mother's life. If he believes that something else could have been done instead, then Bill is going to lose. Bill's barrister is concerned that the Judge may feel that Bill should have just fired warning shots - well, we all know that this would never happen in a real life emergency - but how much experience does a judge have of guns outside of Hollywood movies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwizard Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Typical of UK legal system , complete farce . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 GHE, get his crowd funding appeal on to some of the american sites. they'll support this 100%. Thanks, I don't belong to anyone but have asked an American member of another shooting forum to do it, he will know which ones to go for and also will be known on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Wish him luck..... I will share it on facebook, I am currently only working part time and am also fighting for my sgc back..... Again due to lies by police.....so am unable to donate myself (I was in the police, but suffered at the hands of lies in a disciplinary matter and was kicked out and they also revoked my certificate) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 It isn't about innocence or guilt, the CPS issued a formal statement, a very long time ago, confirming his innocence. it's really about whether or not a Judge (who is obviously trying very hard to be fair) accepts that Bill absolutely did have to shoot to save his mother's life. If he believes that something else could have been done instead, then Bill is going to lose. I am well aware of the meaning of "innocent" - perhaps a little more than you. He has been cleared of committing any crime, but the Police presumably are calling his judgement into question . Wrongdoing would include shooting, when another course of action was possible. Therein lies the crux of the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) I am well aware of the meaning of "innocent" - perhaps a little more than you. He has been cleared of committing any crime, but the Police presumably are calling his judgement into question . Wrongdoing would include shooting, when another course of action was possible. Therein lies the crux of the matter. Please understand that I am in a difficult position, in that I could fully answer your point but can't because the case is only part heard. All that I can say at present is that the police are NOT calling his judgment into question, they are saying something else entirely. They are relying on nothing more than the opinion of one of their own people, the statement of the thief and their own forensic evidence, and all that I can say is that I can't comment on how that has worked out for them Edited February 16, 2015 by GHE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Keep us updated and keep your head - easy to feel like giving up but you all seem to be holding up well. Best regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleFieldRelics Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Tried the link and got this: Campaign Not Found We're sorry, but the campaign URL you entered cannot be found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) GHE - I do not wish to labour the point, but your own quotes are contradictory. it's really about whether or not a Judge (who is obviously trying very hard to be fair) accepts that Bill absolutely did have to shoot to save his mother's life. All that I can say at present is that the police are NOT calling his judgment into question That is his judgement we are talking about. That said, I honestly hope justice is done. I wish him well in his fight to regain his certificates. The link was working earlier, but not now. Edited February 16, 2015 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Just had and email from the crowdfunding site, they have taken the page down because it apparently breaches their terms and conditions - except that it doesn't breach any of their printed ones.. I will try to find a site that isn't anti gun, I expect it will have to be an American one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 The crowdfunding site has now reinstated the appeal page, it was taken down due to misunderstanding http://www.gofundme.com/mivt00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning 425 clay hunter Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I am well aware of the meaning of "innocent" - perhaps a little more than you. .. Care to explain how 'you' understand what innocent means more than GHE, I'm intrigued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 You only need to read his posts to come to that conclusion. I have a more detached view. I understand why the licence is under scrutiny. It is not a clear cut "right or wrong". His father does not appear to fully understand. He is supporting his son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) You only need to read his posts to come to that conclusion. I have a more detached view. I understand why the licence is under scrutiny. It is not a clear cut "right or wrong". His father does not appear to fully understand. He is supporting his son. That's an interesting view, and i accept that you believe that what you are saying is correct. BUT you really shouldn't jump to conclusions because 1. I know - which means that I have the strongest possible evidence for that - that the police evidence is "incorrect" 2. Because the case is part heard it is sub judice and I cannot go into details 3. I have far more professional experience of the law than you might imagine Edited February 17, 2015 by GHE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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