Medical files

[Davyo]

it says on the form Durham sent out it says --there is no legal requirement to fill in the medical however completion may expedite the application (that means quicken)

--- so does paying £38 get you to the front of the queue, I don't know

by volunteering for the sceme you get a chit in your medical notes letting the dr know you have an fac and to contact the police if they have concerns , I see no harm in this as if you are not fit to hold, you should not have a gun and if you don't report your not fit then someone else should, I don't see it as an infringement as holding an FAC comes with a number of requirements and obligations

 

but going off my personnel experience, I come under Durham as my licenseing authority it now takes a very long time to get a renewal and that's after having guns for years without as much as a speeding ticket going against me I had my visit 5 weeks ago and check the mail everyday

I put in my FAC for re-newel on the 7th of July so now on day 141 and counting.

may start up a thread to see who hold the record for waiting the longest

My SGC has just gone in for renewal and the medical form that goes to the doc has to have a copy of the 1st page of the application for the grant or renewal,I was told to do this very bluntly by the Firearms licensing suppervisor at Durham and attach the small confirmation slip on the application that goes to Durham which states I have submitted the necessary documents to the GP.

Doc hasn't said what he will charge yet but poss between £40-£80 then the FAC due next.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Davyo

[drut]

"My SGC has just gone in for renewal and the medical form that goes to the doc has to have a copy of the 1st page of the application for the grant or renewal,I was told to do this very bluntly by the Firearms licensing suppervisor at Durham and attach the small confirmation slip on the application that goes to Durham which states I have submitted the necessary documents to the GP.

 

Personally,I would equally bluntly refuse to fill in any additional form although I am not unhappy about Northumbria advising my doctor of renewal(which they do) apart from concern re: NHS records security.Although I always like to co-operate I strongly dislike being bullied.

[David BASC]

Exactly, there is absolutely no requirement in law to complete the voluntary form issued by Durham, the costs of any medical checks at any time post application is a matter of enforcement and the police have to pay.

 

RE DPA , indeed punitive fines are applicable for breaches of the Act by anyone who stores data.

 

As far as I am aware, but I will double check, the sharing of medical data is restricted to the types of key illnesses such as heart disease, cancer, diabetes etc and the treatments issues to monitor the efficacy of treatment regimes around the UK with a view to monitor best practice. The sharing of data such as a note on other medical conditions or indeed a flag for a FAC / SGC would not be shared.

 

David

[drut]

Hi:David,

That is something I did not know & would be happy if you could confirm as it would clear my concerns.

Regards: Duncan

 

"As far as I am aware, but I will double check, the sharing of medical data is restricted to the types of key illnesses such as heart disease, cancer, diabetes etc and the treatments issues to monitor the efficacy of treatment regimes around the UK with a view to monitor best practice. The sharing of data such as a note on other medical conditions or indeed a flag for a FAC / SGC would not be shared.

David"

[Scully]

the medical form that goes to the doc has to have a copy of the 1st page of the application for the grant or renewal,With all due respect Davyo, no, it doesn't. There is no requirement in law for you to do this, nor does your licensing authority have the authority to insist.

I was told to do this very bluntly by the Firearms licensing suppervisor at Durham and attach the small confirmation slip on the application that goes to Durham which states I have submitted the necessary documents to the GP. No matter what you were told, my sentence above still applies.

Doc hasn't said what he will charge yet but poss between £40-£80 then the FAC due next. ​So if your GP charges you £40 for each then that is £80 on top of your license fee, or £160 if you are charged the highest rate.

Incidently, Have you not considered coterminous SGC/FAC? The license fee is cheaper this way.

[David BASC]

drut, no problem

 

Scully - I agree 100%

[Davyo]

 

the medical form that goes to the doc has to have a copy of the 1st page of the application for the grant or renewal,With all due respect Davyo, no, it doesn't. There is no requirement in law for you to do this, nor does your licensing authority have the authority to insist.

I was told to do this very bluntly by the Firearms licensing suppervisor at Durham and attach the small confirmation slip on the application that goes to Durham which states I have submitted the necessary documents to the GP. No matter what you were told, my sentence above still applies.

Doc hasn't said what he will charge yet but poss between £40-£80 then the FAC due next. ​So if your GP charges you £40 for each then that is £80 on top of your license fee, or £160 if you are charged the highest rate.

Incidently, Have you not considered coterminous SGC/FAC? The license fee is cheaper this way.

 

Thanks sculls I understand what your saying,but unless you are under Durham you have no idea.I was in their office two weeks poss three weeks ago and was made to feel belittled by said firearms supervisor and even refered to as old man . When I mentioned BASC I got a look that could kill.

[Scully]

You're welcome Davyo.

Have you considered simply not complying? Non-compliance is well worth considering when you consider what is the worst they can do if you don't.

The worst they can do if you don't comply is issue your ticket. It works like this: If an applicant fails to comply, (even if the applicant has highlighted a medical condition which may require a GP's report) so long as there is nothing in the applicants medical history which excludes them from obtaining a license, the issuing authority is left with no option but to grant. The fact you haven't complied means your issuing authority is left with no option but to contact your GP themselves for further information (this is why you sign your application giving consent for the issuing authority to contact your GP) and pay for that information.

You have fulfilled the only obligation you are required to fulfil by accurately filling in the application form as required by law. The fact that your ticket may take the best part of a year to arrive appears to be Durhams best practice anyhow, so what have you to lose?

[MartynGT4]

Hmm so more people get to know we hold firearms and where we live and some of them will be less likely to talk to the doctor when they're having problems for fear of being reported to the FEO. If someone suffering from mental illness doesn't want to lose his ticket, he or she will just avoid the doctor. How the **** is that supposed to help matters?

Edited November 26, 2014 by MartynGT4

[Bazooka Joe]

Meetings will carry on being undertaken by BASC with constabularies that are acting outside of the guidance, the objective being to engage with these forces in a positive but firm way to ensure they do comply with the guidance. If not there are further steps that we can and will take.

 

 

I've quoted this off another thread David, same subject, DURHAM, have you an update.?

 

but unless you are under Durham you have no idea.I was in their office two weeks poss three weeks ago and was made to feel belittled by said firearms supervisor and even refered to as old man . When I mentioned BASC I got a look that could kill.

 

 

 

Davyo, have you not sent a letter of complaint in ?

Edited November 26, 2014 by Bazooka Joe

[Luckyshot]

Thanks sculls I understand what your saying,but unless you are under Durham you have no idea.I was in their office two weeks poss three weeks ago and was made to feel belittled by said firearms supervisor and even refered to as old man . When I mentioned BASC I got a look that could kill.

You should have just told them you were not taking part In the medical form trial as I did and they weren't bothered in the slightest. Your wasting your time mentioning BASC when I did they just burst out laughing.

[Scully]

Hmm so more people get to know we hold firearms and where we live and some of them will be less likely to talk to the doctor when they're having problems for fear of being reported to the FEO. If someone suffering from mental illness doesn't want to lose his ticket, he or she will just avoid the doctor. How the **** is that supposed to help matters?

Ah but, 'helping matters' is no concern of the police, nor their intent, whereas covering their ***** is. Quite clever really, when you think about it.

[Davyo]

I have no objection to complying with the medical form,I was just stating that I was told by the firearms licensing supervisor that I had to do the med form on my application for renewal . However the notes it clearly state it's not compulsory, but states if you do comply that you should submit a copy of page 3 of the completed firearms and / or shotgun application form to your GP,along with the attached medical concentrate form and the form headed "medical questions trial"

I agree with MartynGT4,that licence holders that May of developed a medical condition like depression or something will avoid getting help from there GP and simply could be ticking time bombs.So this form might just do the opposite to what it's supposed to achieve.Durham are saying on there letter that they have introduced the form due to"in 2012 Durham Constabulary found a significant number of licence holders had deliberately mistakenly withheld relevant medical information which had a direct bearing on their suitability to remain or become a firearm/or shotgun licence holder.

So has the irresponsibility of a minority made it a trial with possible compulsory medical form being brought into the application/renewal prosess?

[Scully]

So has the irresponsibility of a minority made it a trial with possible compulsory medical form being brought into the application/renewal prosess?

Depends if they're telling the truth.

[phaedra1106]

Durham Firearms and telling the truth, surely an oxymoron if ever there was one.

[Gazoo]

From 30 yrs of dealing with Durham firearms and usually prevailing, my advice is, complain, complain , complain. Write to the firearms office, then if you get bull**** from them write to the chief conastable, follow any letter to the CC up with one to your MP. I once got a load of **** from firearms all the way to an ACC and in the end phoned the HQ and asked to speak to the CC and although I got his secretary, was told he would have talked to me had he been in and the next day it got sorted.

[David BASC]

re Durham - we have met with the new Senior police officer in charge, it was a positive meeting and more details will follow.

David

[phaedra1106]

David, is that C.I. Steve Ball or has there been another change?, we had an hour long meeting with him and another officer regarding my Autistic sons application and it was clear from the beginning that no matter what we said they were going to keep moving the goal posts and find a reason to block his application.

[David BASC]

Yep, the new chap is C.I. Milne

[phaedra1106]

May be worth having another run at them then

[Sprackles]

A few years ago when I was looking at my records which were displayed on screen in front of me whilst having blood taken,I noticed right at the top an entry which stated "Has Shotgun Certificate"

I asked about this at the time and the nurse replied, it's the law now. I did query it but never pursued it as I thought it a bit over the top at the time.
This is Humbersides area.

[Davyo]

£50 at the surgery and had to be paid before handing the forms over,so another £50 or even more next year for the FAC.Asked the girl on doctors reception,what they charge for a conterminous expecting £50,nope £100 lol

[David BASC]

If the police want a medical report at any other time during the life of a certificate, this is classed as enforcement. Any costs relating to enforcement should be met by the police and not the certificate holder.

[Scully]

£50 at the surgery and had to be paid before handing the forms over,so another £50 or even more next year for the FAC.Asked the girl on doctors reception,what they charge for a conterminous expecting £50,nope £100 lol

The coterminous certificate fee discount only applies to the cost of your certificates, not to your GP's fee. What your GP charges has nothing whatsoever to do with your certificate fees.

Coterminous certificates are mentioned on your application forms, or used to be if they no longer are.

If you had failed to comply you could have saved yourself 100 quid and still have your certificates, but the choice is yours.

[Luckyshot]

£50 at the surgery and had to be paid before handing the forms over,so another £50 or even more next year for the FAC.Asked the girl on doctors reception,what they charge for a conterminous expecting £50,nope £100 lol

Daylight robbery, my doctor said he would charge £25 for a letter but refused to do any for sgc/fac applications/renewals.