CBL

I tried some of the wool wadded cartridges last season (1 box!), and in the 38g load if memory serves, they kicked the hell out of me on an end of season driven day. I use a moderate weight 12 bore O/U - 7lbs 8oz - and which is well fitted to me, but I found them just too much and actually unpleasant. Not again. The normal Black Gold on the other hand are superb cartridges and I am interested in trying the Dark Storms this season.

Couldn't agree more

Great post and really sums up the wider perspective of wildfowling. Can't remember a time I have gone to the marsh with a goal of a big bag - much more about being out there, (generally with a good friend) and on the marsh when so few are around, and enjoying the sights and sounds that a flight has to offer. A shot is always a special occasion and even more so if it brings something to hand. For me, my most memorable red letter day has to my first pinkfoot to my 8 bore using black powder. It looked as if the flight was entirely over and we walked off the marsh (after a stunning frosty and sunny morning) to see skeins upon skeins of pinks in the morning light pouring along the coastal edge. We were fortunate that a few came our way and the big 8 with 2oz of Bismuth brought to hand a very tall goose I will never forget. Over decoys - a memorable evening decoying wigeon when (again using the 8 bore) I restricted myself to only birds 30yrds or more away. I remember it clearly because of the incredible showing of wigeon but also for the constant laughter which erupted every time a cloud of black powder smoke covered us post-shot. I think I was fortunate enough to end the evening with 5 wigeon which remains my best decoy showing on the marsh, but not memorable for the number alone.

Make that 78 Teal - just paid up and looking forward to it. Am based in Rutland so just in the Southern segment by a few miles

I use Bismuth (which I buy in 3lb tubs @ around £160 a time) and generally 2 oz loads, so go on the basis of of c.£6 a shot :( Ultimately it depends on how often you are on the marsh - if you are flighting 3-4 times a week, it could get seriously expensive, but I regrettably only have 8-10 times out a year so each visit is very special, and the cost of say 35-50 cartridges a season very manageable therefore.

Another from the South (just!) likely to sign up this evening - need to stop wavering!

I spent the best part of 3 years looking hard for a decent double eight which was both a pleasure to own for the long term, but also usable on the foreshore numerous times during the season. Going to auctions revealed quite a few guns, but a real lack of quality with a lot of poor examples which then, surprise surprise, turned up on the market 6 mths later done up cosmetically (not that this is necessarily a bad thing if the underlying quality is ultimately there). One of the challenges also was that very few gunsmiths or auction houses have the capacity to properly measure barrel thicknesses, so there remains the risk to the amateur of buying something with thin walls, overbored chambers or potentially hidden ring bulges. A lot of these old guns regrettably had a hard life decades ago! I ultimately sourced my double eight through a friend who is an RFD/vintage gun seller and who I had alerted to my interest some time earlier. When he was out and about and aware of my criteria, it was then a question of moving fast as there was an occasion when a dealer gazumped me on a double Greener with literally a few hours to spare before I saw it. I now use the 8 around a dozen times a year, in all weathers, and whilst I am fastidious about cleaning her, I much prefer to use black powder . I also have no qualms about crouching in creeks and getting the gun coated in mud if a pinkfoot or wigeon is on the agenda!

Or go for a Boxall and Edmiston?

Ditto - years of use here and no complaints.

If ever in France, try the factory itself - v significant discounts if you time it right......

Well balanced, not whippy, but equally not too labourious on the swing (i.e. never felt muzzle heavy). If memory serves, the gun weighed > 8lbs, but did not feel unduly heavy or like a lump which is unlike some comparable O/U sporters/trap guns I have seen used out in the field.

3rd full season of using my pride and joy on the marsh - accounting for some memorable wigeon and one special pre-Christmas Pinkfoot. Special memories. http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=209493&page=1 CBL

Quality of chambers (pitting etc) - lots of big bores had suffered badly over the years from poor care given their use on the marsh Thickness of barrels - I always looked for at least 55 thou+ on an 8 bore but others look for more Evidence of ring bulges from overloads - also loose barrels on the face. Evidence of undue "cleaning up" - i.e. badly done case colour hardening, poorly cut re-chequering Cut-down barrels = no choke Replacement hammers which do not fit. The list goes on, but after 4 yrs of looking for one several years back, I got to see a lot of poor examples, esp at auctions. There are gems out there, especially if cared for (and used) privately. Also some really good, friendly enthusiasts willing to offer help and advice, esp on wildfowling forum.

I would echo CosmicBlues comments re the HPX. Although I did not ultimately go ahead with a purchase (going a different direction in terms of gun), I did meet John Jeffries a couple of times and tried the gun (33" game model) extensively. It, and the service John offered, were impressive, and anyone considering a Perazzi should seriously look at the HPX.

Agreed on this. If you want to try a lot of different cartridges before settling on one or two preferred brands, JC's allows you to do this to a really significant degree. They also have stack loads of different 16 bore cartridges which I have yet to find any gunshop match. From my experience, a number of shops (especially in/around London) have really limited stock and go anything outside the "norm", and you can't get it. William Powell online also recommended on cartridges - although they don't deliver currently which is a bit of a pain.

Highly recommend Teague chokes - pattern superbly, long flush chokes are a very good fit indeed, and they work! In my case (a gun used predominantly for game/rough shooting), Nigel recommended avoiding the 3/4 and full chokes and is a keen advocate of 5/8 and 7/8's. I also use 3/8's, 1/4 and improved.

Also worth looking at the new Boxall and Edmiston over and under if this is the case as this is also 100% british engineered and manufactured (other than the stock). Plenty of reviews of it on their website and recent (independent) Shooting times review very positive indeed.

I have used the "Blue Diamond" cartridges for a couple of seasons and think they are superb, and easy to shoot. On early season pheasant and for general rough shooting, they are spot on, although I would still think them a little on the heavyweight side for regular pigeon shooting. William Powell also do a 4.5 33g heavier load which again, for late season pheasant are also excellent, especially patterning through a 5/8 or 7/8 choking.

To a large degree, it depends a lot on how often you get onto the marsh and what your quarry/gun is suited for. There are lightweight '8s which are app 11-12lbs and are superb for duck (and geese) - as well as up to 17lb magnums which you would not generally use for anything other than flighting geese on the foreshore. I know there are many advocates of tightly choked big bores, but I have found the pattern on my cylinder 8 bore to be just about the best I have ever experienced on any gun and I consider using it an honour (and great fun) every time I take it on the marsh. For me, I don't get out for flights an awful lot, so the cost of 20-30 shots a season is not one which puts me off taking out the big gun each time I get a chance. If you are looking for one, I would echo comments about taking your time and watching out for some poor examples (of which there are many). Barrel thickness is a particular issue as well as pitting and bulging from using excess loads.

Good evening Paul - have sent you a pm re the HPX; would appreciate your thoughts if you get a chance. Thanks in advance. Craig.

First off, great news on the invite and you have a splendid day to look forward to. In terms of tips - (i) A stout pair of good, worn-in, waterproof boots are a must. They need to support your ankle well as you will be on uneven terrain on a moor and likely to get wet feet if they are not good quality/well waterproofed. (ii) Secondly, a pair of gaiters is in my view a must. You can wear breeks/+2's, but without gaiters, your boots could get filled with heather/water and spoil your walking. Available and affordable - a top notch pair from Le Cham is £40 but they will last for years (mine have). (iii) Re clothing, prepare for a number of eventualities. If you are going to be walking heights, you likely need to have a lightweight outer waterproof breathable jacket as walking heather is generally tough going if you are going miles. Other than that, tweed proves its worth time and time again. I have worn moleskin breeks and got them wet through which was v unpleasant - my tweed when wet however was still perfectly fine and not unpleasant at all. (iv) Gun - don't overgun; there is no need for large shot (i.e. 5's) or large loads - a quality game load of 1oz of 6's will do very well as grouse don't tend to carry shot well. However, don't forget you are shooting walked up and with grouse exploding from heather and going off fast, you do need to be accurate. So practice some going away curling clays if you can or walk some hedgerows for exploding pigeon. (v) Don't be focused on just the shooting; enjoy the scenery, enjoy seeing the grouse and take time to look down to see the heather, the grouse droppings, grit etc to learn more about their habitat. (vi) Make sure you get aware about the safety side of things; grouse can be unpredictable and with any wind, can easily jump up in a covey, explode in all directions with some going back and to the sides. In a line, this can be interesting, so be aware of your surrounds. (vii) Grouse is superb to eat so take your brace willingly. Very easy to pluck and prepare (no need to hang) and delicious. Enjoy your occasion and post up some pics soon!

Some good guidance here. I have used an 1870 12 bore push forward E.M. Reilly hammergun with Damascus barrels for most of my shooting the past three seasons and love using it. I spent a long time researching the market, attending auctions etc, and focused on quality over name. There are some truly stunning quality guns made by provincial "non name" makers which retain a superb level of originality and will make any owner proud, as well as retaining their value. They are a pleasure to use, not really slower to use if you take your time and concentrate, and generally with little choke, are spot on for everyday game/pigeon/rough shooting. If the gun is going to cost you a decent amount, consider using an independent gun checker/reviewer to give you comfort about the purchase. A good friend of mine - Diggory Hadoke - offers this service and gives a great deal of peace of mind for a very low price. He is very well respected in the trade as to his knowledge of historical guns, esp hammerguns (read his book for some insight)and so may be worth a thought. If you use your hammergun down below the sea wall however, make sure you clean it thoroughly afterwards. I use a Damascus barrelled 8 bore and make very sure I clean it thoroughly upon return - they don't make Damascus like they used to (unless you want to pay £104k for the Purdey Damascus barrelled over and under!). Re Damascus, also be aware there are literally hundreds of different types, some absolutely stunning in looks and complexity. Have a look here to learn more - http://www.damascus-barrels.com/Movie.html

Cabelas Dry-plus breathable waist waders. Come up large (at least half way up chest), superb quality, excellent warm Thinsulate boots. Order from the US, but for c£100, I found them superb on the marsh last season. Easy to get into and out of, easy to undo quickly if needing to pee, and reinforced knees and backside show it is designed by people who actually use them practically.

HDAV - I have been to the viewing evenings for the past three years or so and have learnt a vast amount, as well as it being very enjoyable. You meet a lot of like minded folk, but equally get to see a huge array of different shotguns, firearms and accessories. It is easy to loose focus, but if you hage a certain type of shotgun in mind for example (i.e. good english boxlock), you can focus and develop your knowledge about what is, and is not a good purchase. However, if you are thinking about a purchase, it is £50 well spent to engage an expert to have a once over before considering bidding. Dig Haddoke offers this service and I have used him before to good effect - small price to pay to avoid purchasing a pig.

I'm with Scully on this; I sent in my letter and believe it was one of around 950. Although I was very saddened by this response level and the seeming lack of interest, to put it in context, I believe most Home Affairs consultations of a similar nature receive 40 or less submissions. Still a poor show in my opinion thoug - for the sake of 30 mins of time most of us could realistically find without too much trouble.