FinFerNan

This sums things up pretty well I think.

I must agree. I've had a bag full of Beretta's and Brownings but I've been converted to Caesar Guerini. My Challenger is a 32" version and has a swing as smooth as Lee Travino

OK, back on topic. Good pick mate, a nice balance between style and sound quality.

This thread needs to stop now..................... I've been toying with the idea of a 20b for ages

Whatever floats your boat

+1 EDIT: Beats are more of a fashion statement really, never seen any HiFi review that rates them for the £££'s.

Any of you guy's ever been to Coventry on a Friday night Sat in a hide, not a pigeon in sight. Heard a tapping sound behind me so I slowly turned to see a Green Woodpecker no more than 10 feet away. I put my gun down and just watched the little fella knocking bits off the tree. Didn't see a bloody pigeon all day but I didn't care.

That's what I was going to suggest. I got a slab of them (for my and my mates Daughter) with my normal shells. They worked out at £3.95 a box.

Did someone beat you too it

A few of my previous favourites: My 1st car - 1966 Hillman Imp. It was a bunch of ****, but I loved it. Skipping on a few years, I had a 1991 1.3i Mini Cooper, that was one of the very few cars to put a genuine smile on my face, drove it everywhere flat out! 1994 Ford Maverick 2.4 SWB, great fun and a lot better off road than on it! 1996 Mercedes C Class, my first "prestige" car (it was pretty rubbish really but very comfy as a cross Europe tourer) 1999 Golf Gti Mk 4 (the 3dr turbo one) nowhere near as bad as the press said. 2001 Mk1 Audi TT 225q - flawed but gorgeous. 2007 Audi TT Mk2, simply stunning. 2012 Mercedes SLK AMG Sport - pretty decent overall. And now........... 2014 Porsche Cayman 981 the total db's. Ref Hamsters comment about owning a car you just want to drive for the fun of it, Hammy, get one of these and re live your MR2 days (I drove one of earliest as well as the later/last version those, and you're right)

The Chammy's are better finished, but I prefer Aigle mainly because I can spell it

Thanks Stuart, I did have an old Shogun Pinin as my "winter" and shooting wheels but just bought a new Panda to go with the Porsche. It's perfect for my needs. I must admit, I can't wait for the better weather when the Porker will be run in, and I can give it the full fat beans Would be nice to see a few piccy's of your RR before it gets dirty

Yep, hope you get a good one. They are very special vehicles and I must admit to having been tempted a few times. But I went in totally the opposite direction, picked this up last week:

Ahhh, that's what they are? Not heard of that breed, they look like cracking little dogs.

Phew! I would seriously consider leasing a brand new Range Rover Sport HSE, that would be cheaper than funding the purchase of a dodgy old 2007 car plus £8k a year maintenance.

We (wifey and me) are out early on for a nice meal, then home to see in the midnight hour. Alcohol will be taken

The scenery was pretty spectacular and the Lotus was a nice colour.

I've been a referee on at least 3 certs that I can remember, I've never been called. The admin of most Firearms Departments is carried out by civilian staff these days, a phone call would not be out of order in any way whatsoever. In my own experience, I've found the Firearms staff to be most helpful and courteous.

Yes, it's called being damned by faint praise.

Sorry to hear this Rich, not a great end to the year. I have read the whole thread (ignoring the bun fight) It's clear that your employer is on thin ice as they have not followed their own procedures. However, the why's and wherefores of what you did, and if that may or may not have put their stock in danger is (to my thinking) a potentially very expensive argument in the making. The way I see it (and of course it's easy for me) they have acted unfairly and that's going to pi$$ anyone off. But, I assume you'd not want to work there again now anyway? If so, by pursuing them through tribunal/courts etc the best you can hope for is months of stress with the possibility of a few £££'s at the end of it. Having said that, HDAV has hit the nail on the head I think, it's the reference that's the problem, only you will know if that is likely to be a real problem going forward or not. Sadly you have a simple choice to make now. You could try and put them to the sword OR hold your head up and walk away. I dare say TB's PM will be very useful, but unless you can get free legal representation, you may have to seriously consider having to suck this up and move on. Difficult to see right now, but I hope things work out for you. I lost a job once (I was sacked for spurious reasons) but my next job forced me to change directions, and that changed my life for the better. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do

Brilliant explanation FraserP - As you say your question was more related to "where can we shoot" Well the answer is mostly related to where it's safe to do so, but you do appear to be oblivious to the reasons why the grounds you have spoken too are not too keen to accommodate you. This is in part to do with the insurance requirements as very ably explained above by clayman. But also to do with the fact that children (and some adults!) and shooting are not always a good combination. (As yours have already shot, I assume they know how to conduct themselves) But I have seen kids who seem to think it's OK for them to run about, shouting as though they are at a playground. It's a difficult balance, and I'm sure most people will agree with you encouraging youngsters into the sport (I have done so on a number of occasions) But this needs to be done in a way that suits the prevailing circumstances of the specific ground, not just you or the children. Having read claymans post, I am sure you appreciate that ground owners need to protect themselves, but they also need protect their business by providing the right kind of atmosphere for the all of the other shooters to enjoy. This is why some clubs have arrangements for training stands, these are used exclusively for training when the shoot is busy or prefer to hold "try out" sessions when the ground is quieter. As you have said, your two have shot before so most of this would not apply to them. But of course only the ground owner where they shot will know that.

Ian who?

There is no hard and fast rule here. The issue is mostly to do with the weight of gun your Daughter is able/comfortable to use. And of course the recoil she is OK with. These are very much dependent on the fit and balance of the gun and crucially her own characteristics. The recoil can be "adjusted" to suit by altering the weight of the gun in combination with the weight/speed of the load being used. As a general guide, using the same load, the heavier the gun the less it will recoil, but of course a heavier gun is unlikely to suit your child. So for example a 28g load shot through a 7lb 20b will kick like a mule. Whereas a 21g load through a 7.5lb 12 will recoil a lot less. Obviously you can opt for 21g through a 20b, and simply opting for a smaller bore may well be the answer, but of course there are difficulties - availability and cost of guns/ammo. So it becomes a bit of a "Holy Grail" search for the ideal combo to suit her. The ideal situation will be if your Daughter is comfortable with a suitable, possibly lighter and maybe cut down 12 bore, only because these are more readily available and the shells are cheaper. If she can cope with a 12 bore, then try her out with 21g shells (Hull XP are very cheap too!) Some brands do "Junior" versions, must be worth a look? If she really can't cope with the weight of a 12, then a smaller bore or possibly an auto may be the answer.

I was just being nosey I have shot at both of those grounds. In fact I bought my first gun from Jamie Garland. I was over at Wedgie a couple of weeks ago on a Tues night. Shot Compak for the first time, and hit 21, which I am told was pretty good. I tend to shoot at Three Lakes near Tanworth in Arden, sometimes pop over to Kinver - Cross Shooting and at Bordesley & Redditch.

Don't give it a thought. I have been shooting for .................. a looooooooong time. Never seen a problem with "newbies" being anything other than welcomed at the local shoots. If you're really not too sure, talk to the ground owner and ask him/her to introduce you to a group. Just go for it, and don't worry.