Fellside

See if you can try out a recently made used one - no more than a couple of years old. If the cart’s fire one by one, then they’ve sorted the double discharge…?! I wouldn’t buy without being certain the problem has been resolved. It took ages for my friends to get their money back. On the positive side they are beautiful handling guns in 20g.

Two people I know both bought the above 20 bore Rizzini. I can’t precisely remember when - possibly 3 or 4 years ago. Both guns suffered from double discharge, i.e both barrels firing from a single trigger pull. After a lot of fuss and nonsense they eventually got their money back. One now has a Beretta EELL, the other a Browning B725. Perhaps Rizzini have sorted the issue (?), as their guns seem to be selling now.

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?! In the event that we are listened to at all - an adoption of the New Zealand model would be a breath of fresh air.

I too recognise this ‘agenda’ you speak of as a real threat. It’s certainly very real alright. I just hope (and we have to hope!) that this agenda will be challenged by real science.

That’s true enough Dave - well put. However, I would like to retain that same freedom of choice to use lead shot for terrestrial environments. If robust evidence demonstrates harmful impacts I am happy to rethink. As yet there doesn’t seem to be any non-biased clean science on this.

P.S The consumer can do what ever they like, but that shouldn’t dictate my choice of what I shoot game with. Incidentally there is scant evidence (if any) for terrestrial lead shot impacts to wildlife.

Do you know of any robust data re elevated Pb plasma levels from lead shot game alone? I’m not talking about lead toxicity theory or poisoning incidents - there is endless data on this. If research has shown a lack of correlation, or if quality research simply doesn’t exist, it is this which people need to get over. Any changes to legislation must be evidence based.

Interesting points. I have been keeping a keen eye on what’s been happening over the pond. Yes the old type ‘hevishot’ is making a come back. Unfortunately however, the ready loaded cart’s are about £4. each….?! Great stuff actually. I still have some which I was lucky enough to have been given…….but I wouldn’t like to buy it for general shooting…..or even fowling for that matter.

I have to say, rather like you, I don’t necessarily expect a 410 derogation, more a case of hoping that we get it. There are several sound arguments for this, which I hope the org’s are going to make a strong case with. Regarding a new non-toxic load, the biggest shooting market in the world, the USA, haven’t found one yet, despite lead being banned in most states for hunting. It is therefore hard to expect a new wonder shot material…. although I would very much welcome one. Tungsten is great stuff, but incredibly expensive. China holds 80% of the known global supply - and ‘add value’ by offering finished products only. If a new massive reserve is discovered somewhere else…….?!

I’m hopeful that we adopt the New Zealand approach. They’ve allowed lead cart’s for 410s to continue - citing its importance as an entry gun for youngsters etc. Who really knows at this stage…?

If a restriction in lead shot use is based on a percentage reduction - that could well leave room for the non ‘mass market’ small bores. It just depends how it all works through. It is very early days yet. Different countries have approached this in their own various ways. How will the UK respond….? Does anyone really know yet….?!

We need a ‘derogation’ for the 410.

Yes let’s hope!!!

Not entirely a pigeon shooting forum these days - is it? Never the less, I am in agreement with the points you make. My comments above: “However, it is extremely important that those who don’t shoot driven, aren’t excluded by silly cart’ prices.” Lets just keep our fingers crossed that market forces (competition) bring the steel cart’ prices down, if or when the market becomes dominated by steel shot….?!

Ah yes S1 - sorry missed that. My misunderstanding. Yes sorry for miss understanding that one.

I wasn’t aware that you couldn’t take a friend shooting - what’s changed? I take people clay shooting quite regularly to let them ‘have a go’. I have always understood I can supervise them as a license holder.

I knew a chap once who was sponsored by Zoli - years ago. He was also sponsored by a few different gun makers in his career. He always spoke very highly of Zoli guns though. They just haven’t got that ‘big brand presence’ in the UK unfortunately. Try advertising a private sale…?

Indeed. I have just been having a lot of fun shooting clays with a 410 today - lead shot of course. I do fear for the future of this great little caliber. What would we do without it for introducing youngsters in to shotgunning…..?!

Yes agreed. My comments were about how an extra 10 or 20 pence per cart’ doesn’t really hike up the price of game shooting. However, it is extremely important that those who don’t shoot driven, aren’t excluded by silly cart’ prices. I do hope that the usual market forces (competition and new imports etc) will bring the prices down. Right now the cart’ companies seem to be trading on rarity value and the ‘new innovation’ ticket. Those selling points will soon dissolve if the mass market is dominated by steel shot.

I don’t think paying 56.9 p / steel cartridge compared to about 40p / lead equivalent will make a lot of difference to the overall cost of game shooting. I do take you’re point however that they are a silly price non the less. I think there is some commercial opportunism creeping in - re manufacturers inflating prices ahead of lead disappearing.

I have yet to enjoy the challenge of taking the 410 on a driven day. Maybe soon….?!

Yes, if I could take back all the guns I wish I never sold……?! I would certainly need another cabinet…...🙂

Happens every time there’s a big crop of beech mast. Someone did explain to me why overconsumption of beech mast effects them - but I can’t honestly remember the science. Last time there was a big beech fruiting, I found some sick ones. Let’s hope it’s just that anyway….?!

It was probably a youth stock model. My Yildiz (bought for my young boys to use) is similar and this is the one I’ve been enjoying. I usually have a quick 25 when I’m out with them at the clay ground - can’t resist..!! I have to mount the gun in a certain awkward way to achieve ‘fit’ - but oddly enough I can make it work. I completely appreciate how much fun you had watching those clays smash. Go on - just get one….?!