Fellside

Sure, not all birds will have listened to the brief, and fly as high as they should…🙂 I shoot with a pal where the birds are a bit lofty shall we say. He does in fact use a 12, but his cartridges are 1 oz (28 gram) UK 5s. Never more. He’s a decent shot and has no trouble knocking them down. Food for thought….?

If you shoot on hilly ground - steep slopes and deep valleys etc - you will certainly see plenty of genuine 50 yard birds. I think much higher than this and they aren’t too useful anyway. I have been on some low ground shoots where there are wild exaggerated claims of range, because the guns just aren’t used to seeing tall stuff. Just about anything kills average birds - even a 410. You might not need heavy ammo…? As Jimbo Yorks points out 26 grams are often fine for the average tree toppers. It’s just a thought - as I don’t know what kind of topography you’re used to.

I would buy a single box - and pattern them. If you like the patterns and they hold together at range, then you have you’re ‘confidence cartridge’. If you’re gun likes them buy a boat load, because they’re going up in price every five minutes it seems…!

Sorry - just seen your post re limited supply. This is strange as they are popular. I buy my 12 bore Hull cart’s from a farm shop and they have plenty of 12s and 20s.

I can’t speak from direct experience of using a 20 bore. However, the syndicate where I regularly shoot has 3 guns using 20 bores. They seem to have settled with Hull High Pheasant Extreme 6s, which I believe are a continental 6, so about a 5 1/2. These are 28 grams. I have seen them kill some impressive high birds - out to about 50 ish yards. That’s all I can offer.

I think it’s only ‘overwhelming’ because it will burn more staff resource than anticipated. How the HSE respond to the so called public consultation (public appeasement could be a more accurate descriptor), is still entirely their call. This is when their recommendations will get very interesting ….. and our org’s will be tested to the full. Still good that they’ve been surprised by the number of respondents. It sends a message that they won’t have an easy time of it. However, I do share Scully’s disappointment that response numbers should have been much higher.

The HSE accompanying document is frankly a load of clap trap. It is nothing more than coercive bias - to influence the form content.

Just about everything puts woodcock on the menu really. I have heard it said that foxes are fairly efficient in finding them at night - as with any ground birds.

The UK breeding pairs (which is what all the fuss is about) have either bread well or not before the pheasant poults are released from pens. Poult numbers aren’t really a factor. The winter migrants may be disturbed by high densities - but are well adapted to disturbance and can look after themselves pretty well. It’s also worth bearing in mind, that they often don’t even need to roost in woods. If the weather is mild they will choose to roost in long grass or rushy ground. I have often bumped them up in rough open areas. As mentioned above, predation is a much bigger problem.

I think the pheasant densities have to be quite high before disturbance becomes a factor - but yes I’m sure you’re right.

I was on a lovely shoot up in the wild north today - mainly pheasants. On one drive I had 8 woodcock dash past me, but too low for a shot. Throughout the whole day I saw dozens, and that was just me. Other guns reported similar. On the last drive, a fast high one jinked over. I took the shot and was lucky enough to see it tumble. Tomorrow’s breakfast: honey glazed woodcock on toast. Delicious!

As mentioned above, the Bedale was initially designed for equestrian use - quite short. It was trendy for a while. However fabric technology has moved on a long way now. I remember my old Barbour Solway. It was the main outdoor coat of its day and kept me dry (mostly), however it was like wearing cold cardboard. I definitely wouldn’t have one now.

I quite agree with all you say. We all know the profound biodiversity value of game habitat management. The main problem is that the general public don’t. They have been sold a wrong steer - that is to say you’re either a ‘conservationist’….or you shoot. This basic binary message is being exploited by Packham and WJ, the RSPB and the BBC, which are virtually the same organisation currently. Re the Woodcock, the only significant declines in UK nesting pairs are in the South East. Numbers are stable in the north. Equally, once the migrants are here, there is a non-significant 2% probability of shooting a native UK bird. Given that the Eurasian population as a whole has been classified as ‘stable and not under threat’, this is really a non issue, and nothing more than yet another trumped up attack angle for Packham. It is a shame however that some in the shooting community seem to be cow towing to Packham instead of standing by the science.

It’s not a done deal yet.

Sounds marvellous!

You don’t need to have a chat with one to test its accent. Just shoot them. You have a 2% chance of shooting a native UK bird after the November moon: statistically insignificant. Too many people are being suckered by the Packham/RSPB propaganda.

I don’t know what all the Packhamesque fuss is about - re shooting woodcock generally. The declines of UK nesting pairs are in the South East. The northern UK breeding pairs are stable - as is the whole Eurasian population. I’m not sure I would shoot one in Essex or Kent, but once the migrants are here in the north, there really isn’t an issue. As Dave at Kelton says, shoot one if you’re going to eat it. Seems like a sensible approach.

Yes a big fall of woodcock this year. They must have had a good breeding year. There were also good easterlies during the full moon phase. The snipe have had a hard time recently, I personally haven’t shot them, but the woodcock (in my area at least) are in fine condition. You can tell when they are getting desperate, as they move during full daylight to find the odd few areas of soft ground. The snipe have been doing this, but not the woodcock yet. Back to milder weather tomorrow anyway.

Let’s see what happens re the bias and spurious papers the HSE have adopted as their spear head. I think their so called ‘evidence’ will be challenged. Sorry for not sticking to the question brief. Here’s my answer. I think like most people, in the theoretical event that lead becomes unavailable, I will use up all remaining lead for my own table until the last pop. Then…? Steel for high volume shooting (pigeons and clays), perhaps tungsten alloy or bismuth for the rest.

Good grief - shocked!! Sorry to hear all that Gadwall41. I wish you the very best of luck with your shooting future - and of course happy hunting with your son.

Don’t worry, all good in a couple of days, according to the Met Office.

That is very sad indeed. He ought to be reported to the standards committee. I have to say I do get replies from my MP, that is to say the man himself, not his paper shufflers.

Pardon my complete ignorance, but is this Ireland you’re talking about - as in the Republic of? I remember when the Irish inland fisheries were all closed to visitors and locals in a dispute about licence charges. It lasted for 2 years and the anglers won. I can’t imagine the Irish countrymen (and women) putting up with any bonkers new shooting legislation…. ?!

Yes - familiar with that ‘walked up’ or hunting scene. I friend of mine works in Norway. I gather up shooting magazines for him to take across there. He gives them to his colleagues who ‘hunt’ - and they like to read about our various types of shooting. They do have higher volume shooting though - in the lowland areas. There’s a few YouTube videos of pigeon decoying in their lowland barley areas. I believe they decoy ducks and geese too. On a separate note, it seems like a lovely country. Would like to take a look one day.

Apparently there’s a lot of wood pigeon decoying pursued in Norway. As we know, there’s some cartridge volume in that kind of shooting (well…on a good day…. 🙂). They have lots of barley fields in the low lying areas. Not heard much about driven game however.